^B    775    flfifl 


—  IN  THE  — 


ARBITRATION  PROCEEDINGS 


BETWEEN  THE 

EMPLOYES    OF    INDIANAPOLIS    TRACTION    AND 
TERMINAL  COMPANY  BY  AND  THROUGH 
THEIR  COMMITTEE 

AND 

INDIANAPOLIS    TRACTION    AND    TERMINAL 
COMPANY 

BEFORE  THE 

PUBLIC  SERVICE  COMMISSION  OF  INDIANA, 

ACTING  AS  A 

VOLUNTARY  BOARD  OP  ARBITRATION, 


THOMAS  DUNCAN,  Chairman, 
JOHN  F.  McCLURE, 
FRANK  E.  PAYNE, 
CHARLES  J.  MURPHY, 
JAMES  L.  CLARK. 


Central  City  Publishing  Co.,  Printers.  Indianapolis. 


GIFT  OF 


I-nd I -aTf^a  ,   Tucbh'c    service 


...^^ 


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"IS"* 


0^  4  ^iv    ..i^' 


Wednesday,  January  7,  1914. 
Two  O'clock  P.  M. 

The  Commission  Met  Pto^'stmnt  to  Adjournment. 

Argument  by  W.  H.  Latta,  Esq.^,  Counsel  for  Respondent 

Mr.  Chairman  and  Gentlemen  of  the  Commission  : 

Something  has  already  been  said  by  the  gentleman  who 
opened  this  debate  of  the  importance  of  this  proceeding. 
And  preliminary  to  what  I  intend  to  say  during  the  discus- 
sion, I  wish  to  add  also  that  it  seems  to  me  this  proceeding 
is  of  the  utmost  importance,  and  that  it  may  be  the  begin- 
ning of  a  new  era  in  industrial  matters  in  tliis  State,  and 
possibly  in  this  country.  That  we  need  to  avail  ourselves 
of  the  privileges  of  arbitration  and  especially  in  industrial 
matters,  it  seems  to  me  no  one  will  seriously  question.  I 
haven't  any  late  figures  at  my  disposal  but  I  noted  a  compu- 
tation of  the  number  of  strikes  and  the  amount  of  losses 
in  the  United  States  compiled  in  the  Encyclopedia  Bri- 
tannica,  which  shows  that  from  1881  until  1905  there  were 
36,757  strikes  in  the  United  States,  involving  181,407  dif- 
ferent establishments,  throwing  8,703,824  persons  out  of 
employment;  that  between  the  years  1881  and  1900  there 
was  lost  through  the  medium  of  strikes  in  the  United 
States  $257,863,478  in  wages  alone,  and  during  the  same 
period  the  loss  to  employers  reached  a  total  of  |122,731,- 
121. 

Now,  certainly,  it  is  to  the  advantage  of  all  persons  who 
have  to  do  with  industrial  disputes  and  disturbances,  to 
avail  themselves  of  arbitration,  and  one  naturally  wonders 
why  it  has  not  been  more  generally  brought  into  play  in 
the  settlement  of  such  disputes...    The  reasons  perhaps  are 

359081 


that,  in  the  first  place,  there  is  very  scant  legal  authority 
for  arbitration,  and  especially  is  there  none  for  compulsory 
arbitration  at  the  present  time;  secondly,  there  has  been 
no  general  rules  formulated  either  by  legislators  or  arbi- 
trators themselves  in  rendering  decisions  in  which  arbi- 
trators have  been  sitting,  or  in  any  other  manner,  whereby 
persons  who  have  disputes  may  know  with  any  degree  of 
accuracy  the  lines  that  are  to  be  followed  in  determining 
their  rights  by  arbitration ;  and  third,  I  would  say  the  un- 
satisfactory condtiion  which  oftentimes  surround  the 
choosing  of  arbitrators  where  they  have  to  be  chosen  by  the 
parties  themselves;  at  least  two-thirds  of  the  arbitrators 
are,  generally  speaking,  nothing  more  than  attorneys  for 
the  persons  engaged  in  the  dispute.  Now,  it  seems  apparent 
that  in  view  of  these  tremendous  losses  that  have  occurred, 
some  legal  method  is  about  to  be  inaugurated  whereby  we 
may  have  in  course  of  time  compulsory  arbitration,  and 
this  very  proceeding  marks  the  beginning  of  arbitration  by 
an  arm  of  the  government  itself,  composed  wholly  of  dis- 
interested arbitrators  before  whom  the  case  may  be  tried 
substantially  as  cases  are  tried  in  court.  Now,  the  only 
thing  that  remains,  in  my  judgment,  to  make  arbitration 
complete  when  these  two  points  are  passed,  is  that  we 
shall  seek  out  and  determine  and  make  clear  and  explicit 
the  principles  upon  which  such  an  arbitration  shall  pro- 
ceed, so  that  persons  who  submit  themselves  to  arbitra- 
tion may  know  the  manner  in  which  they  are  to  have 
their  rights  determined.  We  have  in  this  country  the 
Interstate  Commerce  Commission,  with  its  promulgations 
of  opinions  and  reports  from  time  to  time,  and  it  does 
not  seem  impossible  we  shall  soon  have  in  this  country 
a  system  of  quasi  jurisprudence  emanating  from  boards 
of  arbitration,  whereby  shall  be  made  public  and  clear 


the  rights  of  persons  who  submit  themselves  to  arbitration. 

What  does  a  man  do  who  submits  his  case  to  arbitration? 
That  is  the  very  threshold  of  the  inqury.  Does  he  say,  "I 
am  perfectly  willing  some  person  shall  compromise  this 
case  for  me."?  Does  submitting  his  case  to  arbitration 
mean  he  is  necessarily  going  to  lose  something?  Does 
it  mean  he  surrenders  the  guarantees  of  the  constitution 
and  the  rights  which  he  has  acquired  through  enactment 
of  law?  That  his  rights  are  to  be  determined  without  ref- 
erence to  the  economic  laws  which  govern  his  business  and 
govern  all  business?  I  take  it  that  it  does  not.  I  think 
the  fact  that  that  has  not  been  made  clear  in  the  past  has 
deterred  many  persons  from  bringing  their  controversies 
to  Boards  of  Arbitration.  If  it  is  a  settled  proposition  that 
a  man  who  submits  his  case  to  arbitration  is  bound  to  lose 
something,  that  it  is  nothing  more  or  less  than  a  compro- 
mise arranged  by  some  person  or  persons  who  may  think 
this  party  might  be  satisfied  with  that,  and  the  other 
party  might  be  satisfied  with  the  other,  and  in  that  way 
the  parties  can  be  brought  together  and  further  disputes 
prevented,  then,  arbitration,  in  my  judgment,  has  received 
a  blow  from  which  it  will  never  recover ;  but,  if  arbitration 
means  that  a  man  may  come  before  a  board  of  arbitration 
and  say,  "I  am  conducting  my  business  according  to  law; 
I  am  conducting  it  according  to  true  economic  principles; 
I  am  not  violating  any  law  of  the  land  or  any  law  of  the 
humanities,"  that  man  may  be  sure  that  he  has  a  right 
to  win  his  arbitration,  and  whenever  he  is  assured  of  that 
right,  he  will  be  very  glad  to  submit  his  case  to  arbitration. 

So,  I  take  it,  gentlemen,  it  is  not  to  be  presumed  here  that 
either  the  committee  or  ourselves,  in  presenting  this  case 
to  your  Honors,  as  a  Board  of  Arbitration,  are  to  waive 
any  rights  which  we  have,  but  that  we  are  to  have  this 


controversy  determined  in  the  light  of  the  rights  we  do 
have,  and  to  have  those  rights,  if  any,  respected  and  en- 
forced. 

Now,  an  employer  of  labor  clearly  has  certian  rights 
with  reference  to  his  business  that  have  been  recognized  by 
the  courts  and  that  seem  well  grounded  in  philosophy,  and 
it  is  not  inequitable  that  he  should  insist  upon  them.  A 
fair  presentation,  it  seems  to  me,  is  contained  in  the  fol- 
lowing opinion  of  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  State  of  Illi- 
nois in  the  case  of  O'Brien  v.  The  People,  216  Illinois 
Supreme  Court  354 : 

"No  persons,  individually  or  by  combination,  have 
the  right  to  directly  or  indirectly  interfere  or  dis- 
turb another  in  his  lawful  business  or  occupation, 
or  to  threaten  to  do  so  for  the  sake  of  compelling 
Iiim  to  do  some  act,  which,  in  his  judgment,  his  own 
interest  does  not  require.  *  *  *  It  is  clear  that  it  is 
unlawful  and  actionable  for  one  man  from  unlawful 
motives  to  interfere  with  another's  trade  by  fraud, 
misrepresentation,  or  by  molesting  his  customers  or 
those  who  would  be  customers,  or  by  preventing 
others  from  working  for  him,  or  causing  them  to 
leave  his  employ  by  fraud  or  misrepresentation,  or 
physical  or  moral  intimidation  or  persuasion,  with 
an  intent  to  inflict  an  injury  which  causes  loss.  *  *  * 
Every  man  has  a  right  under  the  law,  as  between 
himself  and  others,  to  full  freedom  in  disposing  of 
his  own  labor  or  capital  according  to  his  own  will, 
and  any  one  who  invades  that  right  without  lawful 
cause  or  justification  commits  a  legal  wrong,  and, 
if  followed  by  an  injury  caused  in  consequence 
thereof,  the  one  whose  right  is  thus  invaded  has  a 
legal  ground  of  action  for  such  wrong.  Damage 
inflicted  by  fraud  or  misrepresentation,  or  by  the 
use  of  intimidation,  obstruction,  or  molestation, 
with  malicious  motives,  is  without  excuse,  and  ac- 
tionable. 

"Under  the  foregoing  authorities  there  can  be  no 


doubt  that  any  attempt  to  coerce  the  Kellogg 
Switchboard  &  Supply  Company  into  signing  said 
agreement  by  threats  to  order  a  strike  was  unlaw- 
ful. It  was  violative  of  the  clear  legal  right  of  the 
company,  and  was  unjust  and  oppressive  as  to  those 
who  did  not  belong  to  the  labor  organizations. 
Nevertheless  the  strike  was  ordered,  and  thereafter 
plaintiffs  in  error  sought  by  threats,  intimidation 
and  violence  to  prevent  men  and  women  from  tak- 
ing the  places  of  the  strikers. 

"In  the  case  of  Mathews  v.  People,  202  111.,  in 
considering  the  free  employment  act,  we  said :  'An 
employer  whose  workmen  have  left  him  and  gone 
upon  a  strike,  particularly  when  they  have  done  so 
without  any  justifiable  cause,  is  entitled  to  contract 
with  other  laborers  or  workmen  to  fill  the  places  of 
those  who  have  left  him.  Any  workman  seeking 
work  has  a  right  to  make  a  contract  with  such  an 
employer  to  work  for  him  in  the  place  of  any  one 
of  the  men  who  have  left  him  to  go  out  upon  a 
strike.  Therefore,  the  prohibition  contained  in 
section  8  strikes  at  the  right  of  contract,  both  on 
the  part  of  the  laborer  and  of  the  employer.  It  is 
now  w^ell  settled  that  the  privilege  of  contracting 
is  both  a  liberty  and  a  property  right.  Liberty  in- 
cludes the  right  to  make  and  enforce  contracts,  be- 
cause the  right  to  make  and  enforce  contracts  is 
included  in  the  right  to  acquire  property.  Labor  is 
property.  To  deprive  the  laborer  and  the  employer 
of  this  right  to  contract  wath  one  another  is  to  vio- 
late section  2  of  article  2  of  the  Constitution  of  Il- 
linois, which  provides  that  'no  person  shall  be  de- 
prived of  life,  liberty  or  property  without  due  pro- 
cess of  law.'  It  is  equally  a  violation  of  the  fifth 
and  fourteenth  amendments  of  the  Constitution  of 
the  United  States,  which  provide  that  no  person 
shall  be  deprived  of  life,  liberty,  or  property  with- 
out due  process  of  law,  and  that  no  state  shall  de- 
prive any  person  of  life,  liberty  or  property  without 
due  process  of  law,  'nor  deny  to  any  person  within 
its  jurisdiction  the  equal  protection  of  the  lawns'." 


6 

There  is  a  clear  declaration  that  the  right  to  contract 
at  a  price  to  be  agreed  upon  is  a  property  right  protected 
by  the  constitution,  both  in  the  employer  and  in  the  em- 
ploye, so  that  whenever  any  man  seeks  to  gain  employ- 
ment, he  has  a  right  to  offer  his  labor  at  such  a  price  as  is 
acceptable  to  him,  and  whenever  any  other  man  has  em- 
ployment to  offer  he  has  a  right  to  fix  such  a  price  as  is  ac- 
ceptable to  him,  and  if  it  is  also  acceptable  to  the  other 
party,  there  are  the  perfect  elements  of  a  contract. 

Now,  we  have  to  do  here  with  the  wages  and  conditions 
of  this  employment,  ^^ithin  the  meaning  of  the  contract 
under  which  this  hearing  is  being  held  before  your  Honors. 
That  contract  provides  that  all  grievances  of  every  kind 
and  character  as  to  wages  and  conditions,  shall,  within 
five  days  of  the  resumption  of  the  service,  be  presented  to 
and  taken  up  by  the  company.  If  I  construe  that  contract 
correctly,  it  means  this :  That  a  complaint  or  a  grievance 
is  entitled  to  be  granted  by  this  Board  of  Arbitration,  un- 
less previously  granted  by  the  Company,  of  course,  under 
the  provisions  for  making  an  agreement,  if  it  is  a  just 
grievance.  It  must  appear  that  there  is  a  just  reason  for 
granting  the  gTievance,  and  that  there  is  either  a  wage 
condition  which  ^delates  the  economic  principles  upon 
which  employers  and  employes  work,  or  there  is  a  condi- 
tion of  labor  which  violates  the  essential  and  substantial 
rights  of  the  employes.  Otherwise  there  is  not  a  right  in 
this  case  to  have  the  grievance  received  and  granted  by 
this  Commission.  And  that  naturally  brings  us  to  this 
question :  What  wages  is  an  employer  bound  to  pay?  Upon 
that,  in  the  beginning,  I  wish  to  confine  this  portion  of  my 
remarks  to  the  initial  wage,  that  is,  the  wage  which  marks 
the  instant  when  the  mind  of  the  person  seeking  employ- 
ment and  the  mind  of  the  person  offering  employment  meet 


upon  the  contract  of  employment,  which  in  this  case,  as 
applying  to  the  car  service  men,  is  shown  to  be  twenty 
cents  an  hour. 

Now,  the  most  that  has  b^en  said,  and  as  I  apprehend, 
the  extreme  that  can  be  said  is  this,  and  it  was  said  this 
morning  by  Mr.  Esary:  "That  no  business  has  a  right  to 
exist  where  the  conditions  of  labor  are  necessarily  inimica- 
ble  to  life  and  health,  or  where  the  wages  paid  are  not  suf- 
ficient to  support  life,  to  maintain  health  and  permit  the 
reproduction  of  the  race  without  mental,  moral  or  eco- 
nomic deteriorations.  If  the  conditions  of  employment  in 
any  particular  shop  or  business  are  such  as  to  necessarily 
impair  life  or  endanger  liealth,  they  ought  not  exist.  If 
the  wages  in  any  kind  of  employment  are  such  that  they 
will  not  maintain  life,  that  they  will  not  permit  of  the 
marital  relations,  the  .bringing  of  children  into  the  world, 
and  the  rearing  of  those  children  without  moral  or  eco- 
nomic deterioration,  those  wages  are  wrong.  They  are 
wrong  because  they  violate  what  has  been  called  here  the 
principle  of  a  living  wage." 

How  do  we  arrive  at  the  living  wage?  We  have  had 
discussion  after  discussion  during  the  progress  of  this 
case  upon  that  subject.  What  is  a  living  wage  to  one  man, 
in  a  broad  sense  of  the  term  as  it  has  been  applied  here  by 
the  gentlemen  Avho  have  preceded  me,  is  not  a  living  wage 
at  all  to  another  man.  One  man  will  thrive  and  will  ac- 
quire property;  he  will  educate  his  children;  he  will  sur- 
round himself  with  not  only  the  necessities  but  the  com- 
forts of  life,  and  emerge  into  a  prosperous  and  satisfactory 
age  on  a  rate  of  wages  that  to  another  man  means  poverty 
all  the  days  of  his  exstence.  So  when  you  come  to  discuss 
the  question  of  a  living  wage  in  its  ethical  sense,  as  has 
been  talked  about  here,  there  is  no  standard  at  all.     But 


8 

when  you  talk  about  a  living  wage  in  the  sense  that  it  will 
enable  a  man  of  frugal  habits  to  live  and  bring  up  his  fam- 
ily, support  them  to  such  an  extent  that  his  own  strength 
and  the  strenglh  of  his  family  will  not  deteriorate,  and 
educate  them  as  well  as  he  was  educated,  and  produce  a 
condition  of  livelihood  whereby  the  race  is  not  deteriorat- 
ing, then  you  have  a  living  wage.  And  how  do  we  find  that 
living  wage  to  be  measured?  It  is  measured  by  the  law  of 
supply  and  demand.  There  is  no  other  measure;  there 
never  has  been  any  other  measure;  there  can  be  no  other 
measure.  The  courts  have  recognized  that  many  times 
and  in  many  opinions,  and  they  have  on  numerous  occa- 
sions explained  particularly  that  the  employer  is  always  at 
liberty  to  avail  himself  of  the  open  market  for  securing 
his  labor,  and  that  the  employe  by  a  necessity  must  con- 
form to  the  law  of  supply  and  demand.  This  is  the  only 
method  by  which  we  can  arrive  at  the  question  of  the 
proper  inital  wage. 

I  wish  to  read  an  extract  from  the  case  of  Braceville 
Goal  Co.  V.  People,  decided  by  the  Supreme  Court  of  the 
State  of  Illinois  on  the  26th  of  October,  1903.  I  am  read- 
ing from  35  Northeastern  Reporter,  on  page  62 : 

"Section  2,  article  2,  of  the  constitution  of  this 
state  guarantees  that  no  person  shall  be  deprived 
of  life,  liberty  or  property  without  due  process  of 
law.  We  said  in  the  Frorer  case,  the  words,  'due 
process  of  law'  are  to  be  held  synonymous  with 
'the  law  of  the  land,'  and,  quoting  from  Millet 
V.  People,  117  111.  294,  7  N.  E.  Rep.  631,  said: 
'And  this  means  general  public  law  binding  upon 
all  members  of  the  community  under  all  circum- 
stances, and  not  partial  or  private  laws,  affecting 
the  rights  of  private  individuals  or  classes  of  in- 
dividuals.' There  can  be  no  liberty,  protected  by 
government  that  is  not  regulated  by  such  laws  as 
will  preserve  the  right  of  each  citizen  to  pursue 


9 

his  own  advancement  and  happiness  in  his  own 
way  subject  to  the  restraints  necessary  to  secure 
the  same  right  to  all  others.  The  fundamental 
principle  upon  which  liberty  is  based  in  free  and 
enlightened  government  is  equality  under  the  law 
of  the  land.  It  has  accordingly  been  everywhere 
held  that  liberty,  as  that  term  is  used  in  the  con- 
stitution, means  not  only  freedom  of  the  citizen 
from  servitude  and  restraint,  but  is  deemed  to  em- 
brace the  right  of  every  man  to  be  free  in  the  use 
of  his  powers  and  faculties,  and  to  adopt  and 
pursue  such  a  vocation  or  calling  as  he  may  choose 
subject  only  to  the  restraints  necessary  to  secure 
the  common  welfare.  Property,  in  its  broader 
sense,  is  not  the  physical  thing  which  may  be  the 
subject  of  ownership,  but  is  the  right  of  dominion, 
possession,  and  power  of  disposition  which  may 
he  acquired  over  it.  And  the  right  of  property 
preserved  by  the  constitution  is  the  right  not  only 
to  possess  and  enjoy  it,  but  also  to  acquire  it  in 
any  lawful  mode  or  by  following  any  lawful  in- 
dustrial pursuit  wliich  the  citizen,  in  the  exer- 
cise of  the  liberty  guaranteed,  may  choose  to 
adopt.  Labor  is  the  primary  foundation  of  all 
wealth.  The  property  whch  each  one  has  in  his 
own  labor  is  the  common  heritage.  And,  as  an 
incident  to  the  right  to  acquire  other  property, 
the  liberty  to  enter  into  contracts  by  which  labor 
may  be  employed  in  such  way  as  the  laborer  shall 
deem  most  beneficial,  and  of  others  to  employ  such 
labor,  is  necessarily  included  in  the  consitutional 
guaranty.  In  the  Frorer  case  we  said:  'The  priv- 
ilege of  contracting  is  both  a  liberty  and  a  property 
right,  and  if  A.  is  denied  the  right  to  contract, 
and  acquire  property  in  the  manner  which  he  has 
hitherto  enjoyed  under  the  law,  and  which  B., 
O.  and  D.  are  still  allowed  by  the  law  to  enjoy, 
it  is  clear  that  he  is  deprived  of  both  liberty  and 
property,  to  the  extent  that  he  is  thus  denied  the 
right  to  contract' ;  and  quoted  with  approval :  'The 
man  or  the  class  forbidden  the  acquisition  or  enjoy- 
ment of  the  property  in  the  manner  permitted  the 


10 

commiinity  at  large  would  be  deprived  of  liberty 
in  particulars  of  primary  importance  to  his  or 
their  pursuit  of  happiness.'  Cooley,  Const.  Lim. 
393.  It  is  undoubtedly  true  that  the  people  in 
their  representative  capacity  may,  by  general  law, 
render  that  unlawful,  in  many  cases,  which  had 
hitherto  been  lawful.  But  laws  depriving  par- 
ticular persons  or  classes  of  persons  of  rights  en- 
joyed by  the  community  at  large  to  be  valid  must 
be  based  upon  some  existing  distinction  or  rea- 
son, not  applicable  to  others,  not  included  within 
its  provisions.  Id.  391.  And  it  is  only  when  such 
distinctions  exist  that  differentiate  in  important 
particulars  persons  or  classes  of  persons  from  the 
body  of  the  people,  that  laws  having  operation  only 
upon  such  partcular  persons  or  classes  of  persons 
have  been  held  to  be  valid  enactments.  In  the 
Millet  case  we  held  that  it  was  not  competent,  un- 
der the  constitution,  for  the  legislature  to  single 
out  operators  of  coal  mines  and  impose  restric- 
tions in  making  contracts  for  the  employment  of 
labor  which  were  not  required  to  be  borne  by 
other  employers.  And  in  the  Frorer  case  a  law 
singling  out  persons,  corporations  or  associations 
engaged  in  mining  and  manufacturing,  and  de- 
priving them  of  the  right  to  contract  as  persons, 
corporations  and  associations  engaged  in  other 
business  or  vocation  might  lawfully  do,  was  in  vio- 
lation of  the  constitution,  and  void. 

"The  act  under  consideration  applies  not  to  all 
corporations  existing  within  the  state,  or  to  all 
that  have  been  or  may  be  organized  for  pecuniary 
profit  under  the  general  incorporation  laws  of  the 
state.  There  is  no  attempt  to  make  a  distinction 
between  corporations  and  individuals  who  may  em- 
ploy labor.  The  slightest  consideration  of  the  act 
will  demonstrate  that  many  corporations  that  may 
be  and  are  organized  and  doing  business  under 
the  laws  are  not  included  -wdthin  the  designated 
corporations.  No  reason  can  be  found  that  would 
require  weekly  payments  to  the  employes  of  an 
electric  railway  that  would  not  require  like  pay- 


11 

ment  by  an  electric  light  or  gas  company ;  to  a  cor- 
poration engaged  in  quarrying  or  lumbering  that 
would  not  be  equally  applicable  to  a  corporation 
engaged  in  erecting,  repairing  or  removing  buildings 
or  other  structures ;  to  mining  that  would  not  exist 
in  respect  of  corporations  engaged  in  making  exca- 
vations and  embankments  for  roads,  canals,  or 
other  public  or  private  improvements  of  like  char- 
acter; that  will  apply  to  a  street  or  elevated  rail- 
way that  will  not  make  it  equally  important  in 
other  modes  of  transportation  of  freight  and  pas- 
sengers. The  public  records  of  the  state  will  show 
and  it  is  a  matter  of  common  knowledge,  that  very 
many  corporations  have  been  organized  and  are 
doing  business  in  the  state  which  necessarily  em- 
ploy large  numbers  of  men  that  are  not  included 
within  the  act  under  consideration.  The  restric- 
tion of  the  right  to  contract  affects  not  only  the 
corporation,  and  restricts  its  right  to  contract,  but 
that  of  the  employe  as  well.  We  need  not  repeat 
the  argument  of  the  Frorer  case  upon  this  point. 
An  illustration  of  the  manner  in  which  it  affects 
the  employe,  out  of  many  that  might  be  given,  may 
be  found  in  the  conditions  arising  from  the  late  un- 
settled financial  affairs  of  the  country.  It  is  a  mat- 
ter of  common  knowledge  that  a  large  number  of 
manufactories  were  shut  down  because  of  the 
stringency  in  the  money  market.  Employers  of 
labor  were  unable  to  continue  production  for  the 
reason  that  no  sale  could  be  found  for  the  product. 
It  was  suggested  in  the  interest  of  employers,  as 
well  as  in  the  public  interest,  that  employes  con- 
sent to  accept  only  so  much  of  their  wages  as  was 
actually  necessary  to  their  sustenance,  reserving 
payment  of  the  balance  until  business  should  re- 
vive, and  thus  enable  the  factories  or  workshops 
to  be  open  and  operated  with  less  present  expendi- 
tures of  money.  Public  economists  and  leaders  in 
the  interest  of  labor  suggested  and  advised  this 
course.  In  this  state,  and  under  this  law,  no  such 
contract  could  be  made.  The  employe  who  sought 
to  work  for  one  of  the  corporations  enumerated 


12 

in  the  act  would  find  himself  incapable  of  con- 
tracting as  all  other  laborers  in  the  state  might  do. 
The  corporations  would  be  prohibited  entering 
into  such  a  contract,  and,  if  they  did  so,  the  con- 
tract would  be  voidable  at  the  mil  of  the  employe, 
and  the  employer  subject  to  a  penalty  for  making 
it.  The  employe  would,  therefore,  be  restricted 
from  making  such  a  contract  as  would  insure  to 
him  support  during  the  unsettled  condition  of  af- 
fairs, and  the  residue  of  his  wages  when  the  pro- 
duct of  his  labors  could  be  sold.  They  would,  by 
the  act,  be  practically  under  guardianship;  their 
contracts  voidable  as  if  they  were  minors;  their 
right  to  freely  contract  for  and  to  receive  the  ben- 
efit of  their  labor,  as  others  might  do,  denied  them. 
"We  need  not  extend  this  opinion  by  further 
discussion.  The  right  to  contract  necessarily  in- 
cludes the  right  to  fix  the  price  at  which  labor 
will  be  performed  and  the  mode  and  time  of  pay- 
ment. Each  are  essential  elements  of  the  right  to 
contract,  and  whosoever  is  restricted  in  either  as 
the  same  is  enjoyed  by  the  community  at  large  is 
deprived  of  liberty  and  property." 

They  held  a  restricted  act  of  that  kind  invalid. 

Now%  any  attempt,  gentlemen,  as  it  seems  to  me,  in  any 
sort  of  a  legal  proceeding  to  take  away  from  the  employer 
the  right  to  resort  to  the  general  labor  market  in  procuring 
his  labor,  and  to  take  away  from  the  employes  the  right  to 
contract  with  reference  to  his  labor  at  the  price  which  he 
can  get  in  the  general  labor  market,  is  contrary  to  the  very 
principles  upon  which  we  have  builded  our  liberty -loving 
land.  These  men  have  a  right  to  enter  into  a  contract  of 
that  character  and  the  employer  has  a  right  to  do  so  and 
if  they  do  do  so  they  are  exercising  no  more  than  the  rights 
given  them  under  the  constitution,  and  any  and  every  law 
that  has  ever  been  passed  in  any  country  so  far  as  I  have 
learned,  attempting  to  interfere  with  that  right,  has  been 
declared  invalid. 


13 

There  was  a  time,  I  believe,  in  England,  a  long  time  ago, 
after  the  great  famine  and  plague,  when  there  was  an  at- 
tempt made  to  pass  laws  regulating  the  price  of  labor. 
Those  laws  were  enacted  and  other  laws  were  re-enacted, 
and  after  a  time  they  were  all  held  invalid,  and  cast  to  the 
scrap  heap  sooner  or  later  as  being  thoroughly  imprac- 
ticable. Since  the  foundation  of  our  own  government,  it 
has  been  the  rule  that  the  labor  market  is  open  and  free, 
and  every  man  has  a  right  to  resort  to  it  in  procurng  his 
labor. 

Various  reasons  have  been  advanced  here  why  it  would 
be  a  very  nice  thing  to  break  away  from  that  rule.  It  has 
been  said  that  these  men  desire  more  pay.  Men  have  come 
upon  this  stand  and  have  been  asked,  "Would  you  like  to 
have  a  house  with  seven  rooms?"  "Would  you  like  to  have 
a  house  with  a  bath?"  "Would  you'  like  to  have  more 
pay?"  Of  course,  they  would  like  to  have  more  pay.  Ev- 
ery man  would  like  to  get  more  for  his  labor  than  he  is 
getting,  but  that  is  not  a  reason  for  advancing  the  price  of 
labor.  If  it  were,  we  would  soon  see  every  laborer  getting 
as  much  pay  as  anybody  else,  without  reference  to  the  char- 
acter of  the  labor  performed  or  the  qualifications  of  the 
man  x>erforming  it,  with  the  result  that  industry  would 
be  killed.  It  has  been  said  here  these  men  could  live  better 
and  they  could  have  more  of  the  comforts  of  life  and  that 
they  could  enjoy  things  they  cannot  now  enjoy.  That  may 
be  true,  but  is  that  a  reason  for  advancing  the  price  of  la- 
bor? Is  that  a  good  reason  why  any  one  particular  em- 
ployer should  be  sought  out  and  told  this :  "You  shall  ad- 
vance the  price  of  the  laborers  employed  in  your  indrstry." 

That  may  be  a  good  reason  for  advancing  the  prices  of 
all  labor;  it  may  be  a  good  reason  why  in  the  course  of 
time  there  should  e  an  upward  tendency  in  wages,  but  as 


14 

applied  to  any  particular  employer,  it  seems  perfectly 
clear  that  it  is  a  poor  reason. 

Bearing  upon  that,  I  was  interested  in  reading  a  letter 
sent  to  the  News  and  printed  in  its  columns  entitled  ''The 
Voice  of  the  People,"  a  letter  from  a  public  school  teacher, 
who  said  this: 

"To  THE  Editor  of  the  News  : 

"Sir: — Reading  the  experiences  of  the  car  men 
before  the  Public  Service  Commission  causes  me  to 
think  that  they  are  better  off  than  four-fifths,  at 
least,  of  our  citizens.  Take  the  school  teachers,  for 
example.  We  commence  on  |450  and  it  is  increased 
only  |50  a  year  until  |875  is  reached.  It  takes 
eight  years  to  reach  the  maximum  salary.  Out  of 
this  we  pay  into  the  pension  fund  2  per  cent.,  at- 
tend classes,  join  associations,  etc.,  until  on  |875 
we  really  do  well  to  have  a  net  $800.  Out  of  this 
|800  we  nearly  all  have  some  one  dependent  upon 
us  as  a  mother  or  sick  sister,  etc.  We  have  to  dress 
in  a  respectable  manner,  as  we  come  in  contact  with 
cultured,  refined  people.  You  can  see  that,  as  the 
conductors,  we  can  not  eat  porterhouse  steak  either, 
and  also  use  butterine.  They  tell  these  things  as 
though  they  were  in  a  class  by  themselves. 

"Their  wages  are  ahead  also  of  drivers,  clerks, 
etc.  The  average  man  clerk,  I  am  told,  receives 
•between  |12.00  and  |20.00  a  week  and  does  not  re- 
ceive free  transportation  to  his  business." 

So,  while  it  might  be  very  true  that  to  receive  greater 
wages  would  enable  any  employe  to  live  in  greater  luxury, 
or  with  more  conveniences,  or  in  a  style  that  would  better 
suit  his  taste,  the  argument  advanced  is  inapplicable  to 
the  contention  we  now  have  before  this  Commission.  It 
has  been  shown,  gentlemen,  that  this  Company  pays  as  its 
initial  wage  to  the  employes  entering  its  service  the  high- 
est rate  that  is  paid  in  this  community  for  unskilled  labor, 


15 

common  labor.  The  rates  of  wage  for  unskilled  labor  run 
from  seventeen  and  a  half  to  twenty  cents  an  hour.  These 
men  are  started  at  twenty  cents  an  hour.  They  are  taken 
from  all  the  walks  of  life.  Men  have  appeared  before  this 
Commission  who  have  been  drivers,  firemen,  clerks,  butch- 
ers; who  have  come  from  every  conceivable  walk  of  life 
amongst  the  laboring  classes,  and  have  sought  employment 
freely  from  this  Company  at  twenty  cents  an  hour.  It  is 
in  evidence  here  that  large  numbers  of  men  seek  employ- 
ment, that  the  Company  has  ten  times  as  many  men  pre- 
senting themselves  for  employment  as  can  be  employed. 
Now,  it  will  not  do  to  say  that  twenty  cents  an  hour  is  not 
a  living  wage.  If  it  is  the  highest  wage  established  for  un- 
skilled labor  in  this  community,  it  must  be  a  living  wage. 
Men  who  work  for  less  than  a  living  wage  are  nothing  more 
than  slaves,  and  we  have  no  slaves  among  us.  A  man  who 
is  offered  less  than  a  living  wage  will  not  work  for  that 
wage.  A  man  who  seeks  employment  at  twenty  cents  an 
hour,  thereby  demonstrates  that  the  employment  he  seeks 
does  pay  a  living  wage — what  is  more  frequently  called, 
and  seems  to  me  better  called,  the  "going"  wage. 

Now,  gentlemen,  as  bearing  upon  this  subject,  I  would 
like  to  review  briefly  the  testimony  of  some  of  the  wit- 
nesses who  have  testified  here  before  this  Commission,  and 
I  have  placed  upon  your  Honors'  desk  for  your  convenience 
in  this  connection,  the  wage  scale  of  each  man.  I  think  the 
testimony  of  these  witnesses  reviewed  briefly  in  connec- 
tions with  the  wage  scale,  the  actual  wage  received,  and  ac- 
tual hours  worked  by  each  man,  will  be  very  helpful. 

Now,  Frederick  Sellers  was  the  first  man. 

He  is  employed  in  the  track  and  service  department  as 
a  motorman  at  twenty-five  cents  an  hour.  He  has  been  a 
motorman  eight  years.     He  has  a  wife  and  two  children. 


16 

He  did  not  quit  the  service  on  October  31st;  he  quit  No- 
vember 1st.  He  did  not  know  of  the  strike  until  Saturday 
morning,  "Twice  I  have  refused  to  work  overtime  when 
they  wanted  me  to.  I  have  never  presented  any  grievance. 
I  pay  ten  dollars  rent:  |7.75  to  |10.25  for  my  coal;  six 
to  seven  dollars  a  week  for  my  groceries.  I  buy  shoes  at 
|4.00  a  pair."  I  believe  he  said  he  bought  three  pairs  in  the 
course  of  a  year.  "I  don't  know  any  place  I  can  earn  as 
much  as  I  do  now." 

Now,  there  is  a  man,  who  in  the  month  of  June  earned 
181.00,  and  he  had  three  days  off.  He  worked  one  long 
day  in  that  month.  In  the  month  of  July  he  earned  $84.50. 
He  had  four  days  off  in  that  month  and  worked  two  long 
days.  In  the  month  of  August  he  earned  $77.00.  He  had 
four  days  off  and  one  short  day  in  which  he  only  worked 
seven  hours.  In  the  month  of  September  he  earned  $78.50 
and  he  had  four  days  off,  and  he  worked  one  day  nine 
hours.  The  other  days  were  ten,  eleven  and  twelve  hours. 
In  the  month  of  October  he  earned  $83.50.  He  had  two 
days  off.  In  the  month  of  November  he  went  on  strike 
until  the  11th  and  went  back  to  work  on  the  11th.  He  has 
lost  three  days  since  the  11th,  and  drew  $42.60  as  the 
amount  of  his  wages  for  the  month  of  November. 

Now,  does  that  present  a  picture,  gentlemen,  in  which 
this  man  shows  he  has  a  just  grievance  against  this  Com- 
pany as  to  his  rate  of  wage?  He  has  no  special  trade  or 
anything  of  that  kind.  He  has  been  with  this  Company 
eight  years  and  has  worked  himself  up  to  the  point  where 
he  makes  from  $81.00  to  $84.50  a  month,  on  an  average  of 
about  six  days  a  week.  If  he  has  not  saved  any  money,  it 
is  not  hard  to  see  why  he  has  not.  He  burns  coal  of  the 
most  expensive  kind,  for  which  he  somettimes  pays  $10.25 
a  ton,  he  says.     He  buys  clothing  more  expensive  than  is 


17 

necessary.  He  has  a  right  to,  of  course;  I  don't  question 
that.  He  buys  shoes  at  |4  a  pair.  George  Marott  says, 
"You  can  get  the  best  shoe  there  is  made  for  |3.  If  you  do 
not  want  to  pay  for  style,  you  don't  have  to."  His  grocery 
bills  run  from  |6  to  |7  a  week,  an  average  of  a  dollar  a 
day  for  groceries.  Even  living  at  that  rate,  which  is  lib- 
eral, that  man  has  an  ample  chance  at  the  wages  he  is  get- 
ting, to  get  ahead  in  this  world,  if  he  desires  to  do  so. 
Take  the  next  man : 

Harry  Walls: 

He  is  a  pipe  fitter  in  the  shop  department.  He  has  a 
wife  and  three  children.  He  has  been  working  for  the 
Compau}^  six  years.  His  wages  run  from  f  17.50  to  |25.00 
with  an  average  of  |18.00  a  week.  He  is  paid  time  and  a 
half  for  overtime.  He  has  bought  a  home  and  finished  pay- 
ing for  it.  He  says  "I  keep  my  family  comfortably."  It 
is  shown  by  this  man's  wage  scale  that  he  works  some  over- 
time and  that  he  is  allowed  for  it.  He  earned  in  the  month 
of  June  181.26.  He  earned  in  July  $89.38.  He  earned  in 
August  199.28.  He  earned  in  September  |92.95.  He  earned 
in  October  |98.18. 

Now,  has  that  man  presented  to  your  Honors  a  reason 
why  he  should  receive  an  increase  in  pay  at  the  hands  of 
this  Company? 

James  L.  Hayden,  the  next  man :  He  is  in  the  car  service 
department  as  a  motorman.  He  makes  twenty-five  cents 
an  hour,  and  lias  testified  he  has  been  a  motorman  eight 
years.  He  has  a  wife  and  four  children.  He  pays  twelve 
dollars  a  month  rent;  his  groceries  cost  from  |8.00  to 
$10.00  a  week.  He  testified  he  made  out  a  complaint  sev- 
eral years  ago.  He  made  one  complant  in  the  eight  years 
he  worked  for  the  Company,  only  one.    He  said  he  used  to 


18 

be  a  fireman  on  a  railroad  and  made  |80  to  |105  a  month, 
and  that  his  wife  was  not  satisfied  because  he  was  away 
from  home  so  much,  and  so  he  took  employment  with  this 
Company.  "I  did  not  join  before  the  strike,  and  I  did  not 
know  the  strike  had  been  called  until  the  next  morning 
afterward."  That  man  in  June  drew  |81.17,  and  he  was 
off  work  three  days.  In  the  month  of  July  he  drew  |86.65, 
and  he  was  off  work  two  days.  In  the  month  of  August  he 
drew  178.28,  and  he  was  off  work  five  days.  In  the  month 
of  September  his  wages  were  $86.28.  He  was  off  work  two 
days.  In  the  month  of  October  he  was  off  one  day,  and 
drew  $84.17.  He  has  been  working  steadily  since  the  men 
went  back  to  work,  since  the  strike.  He  lost  two  days  in 
the  balance  of  November  and  got  $61.50,  after  having  laid 
off  work  a  full  week. 

There  is  a  man  that  ought  to  be  able  to  support  his  wife 
and  children  on  the  wages  he  is  getting.  He  ought  to  do 
more  than  that.  He  ought  to  be  able  to  do  as  Tommy  Mul- 
rey  has  done — educate  his  children  and  acquire  something 
for  his  old  age.  He  is  making  a  handsome  rate  of  wage  for 
a  man  that  has  no  trade  or  special  qualifications. 

Here  is  Mat  McOarty  : 

He  has  been  a  conductor  twenty-three  years.  He  has  a 
wife  and  seven  children.  He  complains  his  hours  were  too 
long  and  said  ten  or  eleven  hours  were  enough  for  a  man 
to  work.  He  said,  "I  have  had  some  grievances  settled  sat- 
isfactorily and  others  I  have  not  had  adjusted."  The  one 
that  was  not  adjusted  was  the  ticket  booth  matter.  "I  have 
accumulated  property  worth  $4,500  to  $5,000.  I  began 
at  fourteen  cents  and  am  now  getting  twenty-five  cents." 
He  testified,  "I  have  the  run  I  want.  I  would  like  to  have 
one  day  in  seven  without  working.  They  always  listened 
to  my  complaints  and  were  always  courteous  to  me.     I 


19 

found  out  about  the  strike  about  midnight  when  my  boy 
came  home."  Mat  McCarty,  in  the  month  of  June  drew 
$86.68,  and  he  was  off  one  day.  In  the  month  of  July  he 
drew  181.11,  and  he  was  off  four  days.  In  the  month  of 
August  he  drew  |87.35,  and  he  was  off  one  day.  In  Sep- 
tember he  drew  $81.10,  and  he  was  off  three  days,  and  had 
one  short  day  on  which  he  worked  two  hours  and  fifty- 
eight  minutes.  In  October  he  drew  |89.36.  He  was  off 
one  day  and  had  one  short  day.  That  short  day  he  worked 
two  hours  and  thirteen  minutes.  After  the  strike  period 
he  lost  three  days  and  the  week  of  the  strike,  and  still  drew 
162.37  for  the  month  of  November. 

Now,  what  just  complaint  has  Mat  McOarty?  He  has 
been  with  this  Company  for  twenty-three  years.  He  is  a 
man  without  any  particular  education.  He  is  not  fitted 
even  to  sell  tickets  at  the  ticket  booth,  because  he  has  not 
the  qualifications  to  enable  him  to  do  it.  He  is  a  good 
conductor;  he  can  be  a  good  conductor  and  run  his  car 
and  attend  to  that  part  of  the  business.  He  knows  that. 
The  Company  has  kept  him  in  its  employ  and  advanced 
him  from  fourteen  cents  an  hour  to  twenty-five  cents  an 
hour.  He  has  accumulated  property.  He  has  raised  seven 
children.  He  has  a  competency,  and  he  is  still  able  at  the 
end  of  that  time  to  earn  from  $80.00  to  almost  $90.00  a 
month. 

Now  take  Glenn  Thompson  : 

He  is  a  motorman  and  earns  twenty  cents  an  hour.  He 
was  twenty-one  in  April,  1913.  He  is  an  extra  man  and 
testified  he  made  from  $8.00  to  $14.00  a  week.  He  said: 
"I  joined  the  union  before  the  strike.  I  signed  a  with- 
drawal, but  not  of  my  own  free  will.  I  did  it  to  hold  my 
job.    I  deceived  Mr.  Mahoney  to  hold  my  job.    I  worked  at 


20 

the  Union  Station  previously  for  seventeen  and  a  half 
cents  an  hour,  and  I  worked  at  Atlantic  City  for  seventeen 
and  a  half  cents  an  hour ;  I  worked  at  Pittsburg  for  seven- 
teen and  a  half  cents  an  hour ;  I  worked  with  the  Big  Four 
bridge  gang  at  seventeen  and  a  half  cents  an  hour." 

Now,  he  has  been  with  this  company  and  earning 
twenty  cents  an  hour.  Mr.  Thompson  began  work,  as  far 
as  this  shows,  on  the  24th  day  of  June.  He  was  off  two 
days  during  June,  the  30th  and  31st,  He  worked  six  days 
and  drew  |11.69.  In  the  month  of  July  he  drew  150.86, 
and  he  was  off  three  days  during  that  month.  It  can  be 
seen  there  that  during  the  month  of  July  he  drew  some 
short  runs  and  some  long  runs,  but  on  an  average  he 
worked  somewhere  in  the  neighborhood  of  ten  or  ten  and 
one-half  hours.  Taking  the  good  with  the  bad,  his  first 
month  of  employment  with  this  company  on  the  extra  list 
brought  him  |50.86.  The  next  month  in  order,  in  August, 
he  drew  $56.73  and  he  was  off  one  day.  There  was  only 
one  day  in  the  month  of  August  that  man  did  not  get 
some  work.  His  experience  on  th^  extra  list  for  the  month 
of  August  totaled  him  |56.73.  In  September  he  was  off 
two  days  and  he  totaled  |56.93.  In  the  month  of  October 
he  missed  two  days  and  he  totaled  $51.83,  and  in  the  month 
of  November,  even  after  the  strike,  he  totaled  $38.72, 
counting  out  the  week  of  the  strike. 

Now  he  had  made  $1.75  a  day  working  at  the  Union  Sta- 
tion in  this  city ;  he  had  made  $1.75  a  day  in  Atlantic  City ; 
he  had  made  $1.75  a  day  at  Pittsburg;  and  working  with 
the  Big  Four  bridge  gang.  This  is  the  best  wage  he  has 
ever  made  in  his  life  and  by  going  into  this  extra  list  and 
sticking  to  it,  he  has  been  able  to  make  more  than  $50.00 
every  month  that  he  worked  for  this  company  at  twenty 
cents  an  hour.     Does  that  look  as  though  he  has  a  just 


21 

right  to  complain?  Why,  he  thought  so  much  of  the  job 
he  had  with  this  company  that  he  deceived  Mr.  Mahoney 
for  the  purpose  of  holding  his  job.    He  said  so  himself. 

Newton  D.  Hilbs: 

He  is  a  car  service  man.  He  is  a  motorman.  Age  24. 
He  has  been  employed  by  the  company  three  years.  He 
has  a  wife  and  baby.  He  has  a  regular  run.  He  is  en- 
titled to  have  his  run  every  day.  He  said,  "I  joined  the 
union.  Mr.  Mahoney  told  me  I  was  in  bad  company,  and 
I  told  him  I  did  not  belong,  but  I  did.  I  went  on  strike . 
I  used  to  work  at  Cincinnati  at  twenty  cents  an  hour  and 
I  worked  in  a  butcher  shop  at  eight  dollars  a  week,  and 
I  worked  as  polisher  at  the  Keyless  Lock  Company,  but  I 
did  not  make  as  much  as  I  am  making  now." 

Mr.  Hiles  in  the  month  of  June  worked  fairly  steady. 
He  lost  two  days  and  he  made  $60.90.  In  the  month  of 
July  he  only  made  |49.24  because  he  failed  to  work.  Seven 
days  in  that  month  he  did  not  show  up  for  work.  He 
voluntarily  threw  away  one-fourth  of  his  earning  capacity 
in  the  month  of  July.  In  the  month  of  August  he  made 
161.64.  He  worked  better.  He  only  lost  two  days  in  the 
month  of  August.  There  were  one  or  two  days  on  which 
he  did  not  finish  out  his  run.  One  day  he  ran  three  hours 
and  thirty-five  minutes  and  another  day  three  hours  and 
five  minutes,  and  his  run  calls  for  nine  hours  and  ten 
minutes  but  running  two  short  days  and  not  working  at 
all  on  two  other  days,  he  made  it  up  on  three  occasions  by 
working  longer  and  cleaned  up  $61.64.  In  August  his  rate 
advanced  from  twenty-two  to  twenty-three  cents  because 
he  had  been  with  the  company  three  years.  In  September 
he  made  $61.33.  He  failed  to  work  four  days  that  month. 
In  October  he  made  $63.02.     In  that  month  he  did  not 


22 

t 

work  three  days.  One  day  he. worked  only  four*  hours  and 
32  minutes.  Another  day  he  only  worked  3  hours  and  32 
minutes.  Another  day  he  worked  only  three  hours  and  36 
minutes.  This  is  a  regular  man.  He  worked  a  part  of  the 
day  because  he  wanted  to  work  a  part  of  the  day,  but  yet 
that  man,  not  working  steadily;  not  working  all  the  time 
he  had  the  opportunity  to  work,  he  is  able  to  make  $60.00 
a  month..  That  is  the  best  wage  he  ever  made  in  his  life. 
He  said  himself  that  when  Mr.  Mahoney  asked  him  if  he 
did  not  belong  to  this  union,  he  told  an  untruth  about  it. 
He  did  not  want  to  lose  his  place.  It  was  more  than  he 
had  ever  made. 

Is  he  in  a,  position  to  come  here,  gentlemen,  and  ask  you 
to  forcibly  compel  this  company  to  pay  more  than  it  is 
necessary  to  pay  in  the  open  market  for  labor?  He  is 
making  the  highest  wage  he  ever  made  in  his  life,  and  if 
he  needs  more  money,  he  can  work  more  days  and  more 
hours. 

A.  I.  McCray: 

He  is  a  conductor.  He  makes  23  cents  an  hour.  He  has 
been  with  the  company  this  time  three  years.  He  has 
been  with  the  company  several  times,  eight  years  in  all. 
He  says :  "I  get  |15.18  a  week  for  seven  days.  I  pay 
110.00  rent;  grocery  bill  |6.00  a  week.  I  can  hardly  live." 
That  is  what  McCray  said.    He  said,  "I  can  hardly  live." 

Let  us  examine  Mr.  McCray's  record  here.  In  June,  from 
the  fourth  day  to  the  16th,  day  he  did  not  work  at  all,  and 
he  missed  again  on  the  31st,  and  yet  he  drew  |42.70.  In 
the  month  of  July  he  was  off  from  the  12th  to  the  16th, 
and  he  drew  |63.60,  evidently  a  pretty  high  wage  for  him, 
because  in  the  month  of  August  he  dropped  back.  He 
could  not  stand  that  much  prosperity.     In  August  he 


23 

missed  on  the  7th,  8th,  12th,  14th,  15th,  16th,  21st  and  on 
the  31st.  He  is  a  regular  man.  He  has  heen  with  the 
company  three  years  and  has  a  right  to  his  run  every  day 
he  will  take  it  out.  He  drops  back  that  month  to  |53.91. 
The  next  month  he  comes  up  a  little  better,  he  works  more 
steadily.  And  he  made  |64.03;  although  in  that  month 
he  missed  three  days.  In  October  he  fell  back  again.  In 
October  he  did  not  work  on  the  3rd,  the  10th  and  the  24th, 
and  he  did  not  work  from  the  27th  to  the  31st.  He  missed, 
you  see,  almost  one-fourth  of  that  month,  and  drew  |52.98. 
Now,  that  man  works  very  irregularly.  You  can  see  he 
worked  one  month  until  he  made  about  |65.00  and  the 
next  month  he  dropped  back  to  |52.00,  because  he  only 
worked  about  three-fourths  of  the  time.  And  yet  he  said 
to  you,  gentlemen,  "I  can  hardly  live."  His  further  tes- 
timony was:  "Before  the  strike,  about  five  years  ago,  I 
complained.  The  Bridge  was  out,  and  Mr.  Mahoney  said 
we  ought  to  be  satisfied."  It  was  about  his  not  having 
enclosed  vestibule.  "In  a  few  days  they  had  a  temporary 
vestibule,  and  Mr.  Mahoney  told  me  to  go  to  work.  Late- 
ly I  went  to  him  about  my  wife  and  Mr.  Padgett.  I  was 
called  up  about  the  union.  I  told  him,  'It  is  up  to  you, 
spit  her  out.'  "  When  Mr.  Mahoney  asked  him  if  he  wanted 
to  keep  his  position  with  this  company,  tliat  is  what  he 
said :  "It  is  up  to  you,  spit  her  out."  You  gentlemen 
remember  his  conduct  |here  before  this  commission.  I 
will  not  call  attention  to  it  specifically,  but  he  was  not 
courteous  to  the  members  of  this  commission  in  the  man- 
ner in  which  he  conducted  himself  upon  the  witness  stand. 
"This  is  the  fifth  time  I  have  worked  for  the  company.  I 
have  no  complaints  to  make  of  the  inspectors.  I  think 
their  reports  are  honestly  made.  I  learned  the  strike  was 
called  the  morning  after,  and  I  joined  on  October  2nd.    I 


24 

would  not  work  with  a  non-union  man,  even  if  this  board 
ordered  it."  Afterwards  he  came  back  on  the  stand  and 
retracted  that  statement. 

J.  W.  Miller: 

Miller  was  discharged  on  the  17th  of  September.  He 
has  a  wife  and  four  children.  He  has  worked  for  the  com- 
pany four  and  one-half  years.  He  joined  the  union  in 
October.  In  October  he  talked  to  Mr.  Mahoney,  and  Mr. 
Mahoney  wanted  to  know  if  he  had  joined,  and  he  said  no. 
Miller  had  a  good  many  complaints  to  make  against  the 
company,  and  he  was  pretty  bitter. 

Let  us  see,  when  you  come  to  consider  his  wage  scale, 
whether  or  not  he  had  any  right  to  complain  of  the  wages 
he  earned  from  this  company.  In  the  month  of  June  he 
failed  to  work  five  days  and  in  addition  to  that  on  one 
day  he  only  worked  3  hours  and  41  minutes;  on  another 
day  he  only  worked  1  hour  and  23  minutes.  His  wages 
that  month  were  |63.40,  practically  for  three-fourths  of 
a  month's  work.  In  the  month  of  July  he  only  made 
$36.82.  He  didn't  work  on  the  2nd  and  he  did  not  work 
from  the  8th  to  the  24th.  He  did  not  show  up  at  all  for 
nearly  half  that  month  and  he  only  made  $36.82.  In 
August  he  did  better.  He  missed  four  days,  and  worked 
three  short  days,  and  made  |67.94.  In  September  he 
worked  until  the  12th,  losing  the  1st  and  2nd,  and  then 
he  did  not  work  any  more,  and  was  discharged  on  the  17th. 
That  is  the  record  of  Mr.  Miller.  When  he  worked,  he 
could  make  $67.00  and  something  a  month,  and  w^hen  he 
only  made  $36.00  and  something  a  month,  it  was  because 
he  did  not  work. 


25 

Robert  A.  McDaniel: 

Age  thirty-two.  "I  have  a  wife  and  three  children,  I 
began  work  in  May,  1912."  He  said,  "I  work  eighteen  and 
a  fourth  hours  and  get  ten  hours'  pay."  He  said,  "I 
haven't  been  able  to  save."  He  was  on  the  committee  that 
went  before  the  strike  with  Mr.  Kinder  to  see  Mr.  Todd 
and  left  with  him  the  demand.  "I  joined  the  union.  Before 
this  union  was  here,  the  people  treated  us  like  dogs.  On 
my  wages  I  cannot  comfortably  clothe  and  keep  my  chil- 
dren." 

Let  us  see  what  his  wages  show.  In  the  month  of  June 
he  drew*  |41.20  and  he  did  not  work  on  the  5th  and  did  not 
work  from  the  20th  to  the  24th.  He  worked  a  short  day 
on  the  25th  and  did  not  work  on  the  31st.  In  the  month  of 
July  he  drew  |45.10.  He  did  not  work  at  all  from  the 
9th  to  the  13th,  both  inclusive,  and  he  did  not  work  on 
the  31st.  This  man  is  losing  about  one-fourth  of  each 
month  in  which  he  does  not  work  at  all.  In  August  he 
worked  a  little  better.  He  lost  the  1st,  17th  and  18th,  and 
worked  a  short  day  on  the  23rd,  and  his  wages  for  the 
month  were  |53.32.  Now,  in  September  he  did  not  work 
at  all  from  the  14th  to  the  24th,  both  inclusive,  and  he  did 
not  work  on  the  31st,  so  his  wages  dropped  back  to  |40.52. 
In  October  he  got  |46.87,  and  failed  to  work  seven  days. 

Now,  that  is  the  man  who  says  to  you,  gentlemen,  as 
the  ground  for  raising  his  wages,  "I  haven't  been  able  to 
save." 

Mr.  Payne:  Is  he  an  extra  man  or  a  regular 
man? 

Mr.  Latta  :  He  is  a  regular  man.  He  has  been 
with  the  company  since  May,  1912. 

Mr.  Clark:  He  seems  to  have  short  runs  all 
the  time. 


26 

Mr.  Latta:  He  has  some  short  runs,  evidently. 
Seven  hours  and  53  minutes,  that  is  almost  eight 
hours,  and  then  he  advanced  until  his  hours  were 
nine  hours,  and  then  his  later  runs  were  all  ten 
hours. 

Earl  Galvin: 

He  never  worked  but  four  days  in  his  life.  He  said  he 
reported  four  days  and  got  four  days  work.  That  was 
after  the  strike,  and  I  assume  he  is  not  especially  interest- 
ed in  this  controversy. 

Thomas  B.  Stearns: 

He  has  been  a  motorman  since  January  11th.  He  has 
a  wife  and  two  children.  "This  is  the  third  time  I  have 
worked  for  the  company."  "Before  the  strike,"  he  said, 
"I  made  seven  or  eight  or  nine  dollars  a  week.  I  barely 
existed."  Then  he  went  on  to  say  he  had  at  one  time 
worked  as  attendant  at  an  insane  hospital  out  west  at 
135.00  a  month  and  moved  from  there  to  Logansport,  and 
became  an  attendant  in  a  hospital  there  and  made  |25.00 
a  month.  He  worked  also  in  a  broom  factory  and  had  a 
broom  factory  of  his  own.  He  was  fair  enough  to  say 
Mr.  Mahoney  always  treated  him  like  a  man.  Stearns 
is  on  the  extra  list,  of  course,  because  he  began  to  work — 
according  to  this  he  said  he  was  employed  on  January 
11th.  I  do  not  know  why  he  did  not  work  the  first  part 
of  June.  Anyway,  from  the  21st  to  the  31st  of  June  he 
lost  one  day,  and  he  got  |20.70  for  the  days  he  did  work. 
In  July  he  got  work  every  day,  .some  days  short,  but  his 
wages  for  the  month  were  |54.66.  In  August  he  got  a 
higher  rate,  he  made  $70.00.  He  testified  he  was  detailed 
on  special  duty  part  of  the  time  in  August  with  what  he 
called  the  sluggers.    He  got  twenty-five  cents  an  hour  for 


27 

that  period.  So  that  month  he  got  |70.00.  He  went  back 
to  work  on  the  6th  of  September  and  worked  all  excep^, 
two  days  the  balance  of  the  month.  He  made  |47.00  from 
the  6th  to  the  end  of  the  month.  Then  in  October  he  did 
not  work  regularly.  He  made  |38.65.  He  lost  nearly  a 
third  of  that  month.  Since  the  strike  he  has  been  work- 
ing more  regularly  again,  although  two  or  three  days  he 
only  made  short  time.  Now,  Mr.  Stearns,  when  he  worked, 
regularly,  made  good  pay,  and  got  about  |54.66  a  month ; 
at  that  rate,  on  the  extra  list. 

Paul  Smith  : 

He  is  a  motorman,  age  24.  He  has  a  wife  and  no  chil- 
dren. It  is  the  second  time  he  has  worked  for  the  com- 
pany. He  pays  four  dollars  a  week  rent,  and  does  light 
housekeeping.  He  pays  a  grocery  bill  of  five  to  seven 
dollars  a  week,  and  takes  two  meals  away  from  home.  He 
buys  clothing  on  credit.  He  says  he  was  discharged.  He 
made  |48.17  in  June,  failing,  however,  to  work  about  four 
or  five  days  of  that  time,  and  up  until  he  was  discharged 
in  July,  he  made  fair  time,  except  he  had  two  short  days. 
By  the  21st  of  July  he  had  earned  |39.69.  He  has  not 
been  in  the  employ  of  the  company  since  the  22nd  of  July. 

A.  H.  Eay: 

He  had  been  a  conductor  since  the  16th  of  February. 
He  was  called  in  about  his  bond  and  went  to  see  the  bond 
men  and  they  would  not  give  him  any  information  and 
he  could  not  work  without  a  bond,  and  he  had  to  quit.  His 
employment  terminated  the  1st  day  of  September.  He 
was  on  the  extra  list  in  the  month  of  June.  He  did  not 
work  on  the  5th  and  did  not  work  from  the  11th  to  the 
16th,  and  he  did  not  work  on  the  31st.  His  wages  for  the 
rest  of  the  month  were  |34.50.     In  the  month  of  July  he 


28 

made  |48.95.  He  worked  more  regularly.  In  August  he 
made  149.70,  so  that  he  was  doing  fairly  well  in  the  extra 
list  at  twenty  cents  an  hour  at  the  time  he  got  in  trouble 
about  his  bond. 

Claude  Kinder: 

He  is  a  conductor;  married;  one  boy;  he  testified  he 
made  |14.40  a  week.  He  pays  |11.00  a  month  rent.  His 
wife  attends  to  all  bills  and  he  don't  know  about  his  bills. 
He  says  he  has  not  saved  anything.  But  Kinder  with  a 
wife  and  one  child,  made  in  the  month  of  June,  |65.07 ;  in 
July  he  made  |62.19;  in  August  he  made  |57.77,  and  he 
failed  to  work  several  days.  In  September  he  made  |60.31 ; 
in  October  up  until  the  29th,  counting  out  about  three  days 
he  lost  before  that  time,  he  made  |55.61.  He  had  not  been 
making  a  bad  rate  of  wage.  He  has  a  regular  run.  He 
laid  off  on  an  average  about  four  or  five  days  every  month 
according  to  this,  and  several  days  each  month  he  only 
worked  two  or  three  hours,  and  yet  he  made  a  fairly  good 
wage. 

B.  E.  Cook: 

He  was  a  witness  for  the  committee;  he  is  a  motorman 
on  the  extra  list  at  twenty  cents  an  hour.  His  employ- 
ment terminated  on  the  23rd  of  June.  He  had  worked 
eighteen  months — ^no,  he  is  on  the  extra  list.  "I  have  a 
wife  and  two  children.  I  quit  I  was  called  to  the  office 
about  running  away  from  a  man  near  the  Fair  Grounds, 
and  Mr.  Mahoney  told  me  after  he  heard  about  it  that  I 
might  just  as  well  quit."  He  said,  "I  don't  know  why  I 
quit."  He  said,  "I  could  not  say  I  was  satisfied  with  the 
wages,  but  I  could  not  do  any  better.  I  worked  at  New- 
port, Kentucky,  at  from  twenty  to  twenty-three  cents  an 
hour.    My  run  here  was  over  |15.00  a  week.    Since  I  have 


29 

been  away  from  the  company  I  have  worked  in  a  lumber 
mill  at  twenty  cents  an  hour  and  drivers  there  get  nine  to 
twelve  dollars  a  week." 

I  have  the  statements  beginning  with  the  1st  of  June 
at  the  time  his  last  raise  was  granted,  and  most  of  his 
employment  was  prior  to  that  time,  but  he  said  he  was 
making  |15.00  a  week,  more  than  he  ever  made  anywhere 
else. 

I  want  to  avoid  being  tedious  in  analyzing  this  tes- 
timony, but  I  felt  when  I  made  these  notes  and  saw  they 
were  applicable  to  the  wage  scale,  that  it  was  quite  im- 
portant. 

Chairman  Duncan:    You  have  until  tomorrow 
noon. 

Mr.  Latta  :    I  will  go  on  a  little  way. 

A.  L.  Deal: 

He  is  twenty-two  years  old  and  single.  He  says,  how- 
ever, he  partially  supports  his  mother  and  brother  who 
live  in  Seymour.  He  was  employed  in  May,  1913.  He  is 
on  the  extra  list.  He  has  worked  for  this  company  three 
times.  He  says  his  wages  clear  through  the  extra  list 
would  average  fll.OO  a  week.  He  pays  |5.50  to  |6.00  a 
week  for  board,  and  |1.25  a  week  for  room  rent.  He  was 
first  discharged  by  Mr.  Tretton  for  stealing.  He  was 
cautioned  by  Mr.  Tretton  for  losing  out,  that  is,  failing 
to  report,  and  then  he  was  discharged  for  insulting  a  lady 
at  34th  and  Illinois  streets.  He  was  arrested  during  the 
progress  of  the  strikes,  but  acquitted.  The  last  time  he 
went  to  see  Mr.  Mahoney,  Mahoney  said  he  would  give  him 
another  chance.  In  the  interval  he  worked  at  the  G.  & 
J.  Tire  Company  for  fifteen  cents  an  hour  and  at  Seymour 
at  nine  dollars  a  week.    He  is  making  now  twenty  cents 


30 

an  hour.  An  examination  of  his  wage  record  shows  that 
in  June,  when  he  worked  fairly  steadily,  he  made  $53.63. 
He  stated  to  the  commission  he  could  make  an  average 
of  $11.50  a  week.  By  that,  of  course,  he  meant  to  convey, 
if  he  worked  all  the  time.  He  made  |53.63  in  June,  and 
lost  four  days.  lu  the  month  of  July  he  had  a  period 
from  the  9th  to  the  12th  when  he  did  not  work  at  all,  and 
he  lost  several  days  at  other  times  and  only  made  $47.66. 
In  the  month  of  August  he  was  very  irregular  in  his  work 
and  he  made  $47.32.  In  September  he  was  more  regular 
and  made  $49.61,  and  in  October  he  made  $51.11. 

That  shows  that  when  he  does  work  he  makes  around 
fifty  dollars — $53.00 — a  month.  He  is  a  young,  single 
man,  age  22,  and  it  has  been  so  attractive  to  him  that  he 
has  come  back  to  the  company  three  times  and  begged  Mr. 
Mahoney  for  his  job.  Even  after  being  discharged  in  con- 
nection with  an  irregularity  in  fares,  Mr.  Mahoney  said 
he  would  give  him  another  chance. 

I  submit  that  man  has  no  grievance  against  the  com- 
pany. His  conduct  shows  he  has  not.  His  conduct  shows 
he  wants  this  employment,  and  he  is  well  satisfied  with 
the  wages,  and  if  he  needed  more  wages,  he  could  work 
a  little  harder  and  more  days.    He  misses  a  great  many. 

J.  SCHULER : 

He  is  a  motorman  and  has  worked  for  the  company  three 
months.  His  record  here  shows  he  was  employed  on  the 
6th  day  of  September.  Now,  down  until  the  31st  day  of 
September  he  never  missed  a  day.  He  had  work  every 
day  on  this  extra  list.  He  made  $54.37  from  the  6th  of 
September  to  the  30th  of  that  month.  By  the  first  em- 
ployment he  had,  of  course,  counting  out  the  first  six  days 
of  the  month,  he  was  earning  at  a  rate  in  excess  of  $60.00 


31 

a  month,  from  the  beginning.  In  October  he  made  |48.63, 
and  missed  a  good  deal  of  time,  several  days.  Then  he 
went  on  strike,  and  his  earnings  in  November  are  ir- 
regular. He  testified  to  the  commission  that  he  makes 
between  flO.OO  and  |11.00  a  week.  We  can  see  here  that 
he  makes  more  when  he  works  regularly.  Before  he  worked 
for  the  company,  he  made  |11.50  in  a  tailor  shop  by  work- 
ing extra  hours.  He  used  to  work  at  the  C.  &  O.  Freight 
House,  and  made  17  cents  an  hour.  Before  that  he  worked 
on  a  farm  at  |25.00  a  month.  He  testified  he  would  go 
back  to  work  after  this  hearing  even  if  no  increase  in  the 
wages  was  granted.  That  man's  record  for  the  month 
of  September  and  October,  the  first  full  months  he  worked 
for  the  company,  shows  conclusively  that  the  extra  man 
does  not  work  under  a  material  hardship  as  to  the  amount 
of  his  wages. 

While  I  am  on  that  subject,  and  for  fear  I  will  forget  it 
later,  there  is  here  before  the  commission  a  record  of  every 
man  that  has  worked  as  an  extra  man  during  the  year. 
I,  myself,  was  greatly  surprised  when  I  examined  it  to 
see  how  much  money  the  extra  men  make  if  they  work, 
if  they  report  for  duty.  The  work  is  there  for  them  and 
the  record  will  show  that  the  man  who  reports  for  duty 
makes  very  good  wages,  considerably  more  than  the  min- 
imum they  are  asking  here.  These  men  are  asking  that 
they  get  a  minimum  of  |1.50  a  day,  which  is  |45.00  a 
month.  That  record  will  show  that  the  man  who  reports 
for  duty  while  on  the  extra  list  makes  more  than  $45.00 
a  month  from  the  very  beginning,  and  I  hope  your  Honors 
will  find  time  to  run  through  a  few  pages  and  satisfy  your- 
selves as  to  the  truth  of  the  statement. 


32 

H.  C.  Schmidt: 

He  is  a  car  service  man,  a  conductor.  He  makes  21 
cents  an  lionr.  He  has  been  a  conductor  nearly  two  years. 
He  says,  "I  make  |16.12  a  week  if  I  work  seven  days."  He 
made  a  computation  about  his  wages.  He  said,  "If  1 
work  28  days  I  get  |64.48,  and  if  I  lay  off  two  days"— 
which  he  thought  was  a  fair  amount — "I  make  $59.86." 
He  said,  '"I  pay  f24.00  a  month  for  groceries,  |5.00  for 
rent'  $5.00  insurance  and  dues  and  I  pay  |12.00  a  month 
on  my  furniture,  $5.00  a  month  for  clothing ;  that  is  |51.00 
a  month."  He  showed  by  that  he  only  had  a  balance  of 
about  $8.00  a  month.  His  record  shows  very  much  to  the 
contrary.  His  record  shows  that  in  June  he  made  and 
drew  $63.39,  although  he  was  off  that  month  three  days. 
For  the  month  of  July  he  made  and  drew  $66.92,  although 
in  that  month  he  was  off  two  days.  He  figured  that  if  he 
was  off  two  days  in  the  month  his  net  earning  would  be 
$59.86,  while  in  July  he  was  off  two  days  and  his  earnings 
were  $66.92. 

Chaieman  Duncan  :  He  arrived  at  that  by  the 
week? 

Mr.  Latta  :  I  am  calling  attention  to  his  actual 
earnings  as  compared  with  his  actual  expenditures 
to  show  he  has  more  than  $8.00  left  at  the  end  of 
the  month  for  his  incidental  expenses.  He  earned 
during  the  month  of  August,  $65.59,  and  in  Sep- 
tember, $62.92,  and  in  October  he  earned  and  drew 
$65.59. 

Commenting  further  on  his  testimony,  as  1  have 
it  abstracted  here,  "I  have  been  called  up  by  Mr. 
Mahoney  six  times,  four  times  on  account  of  the 
union.  I  joined  September  2nd.  Mr.  Mahoney 
would  not  believe  it  when  I  told  him  I  had  not 


33 

joined.  A  union  man  treats  a  union  man  better 
than  he  does  a  non-union  man.  We  don't  treat 
scabs  as  well  as  we  do  union  men.  If  my  motorman 
was  not  a  union  man,  he  would  be  a  scab.  I  don't 
think  a  non-union  man  is  anything  but  a  scab.  By 
the  union  we  are  able  to  try  all  discharges  before 
the  commission.  If  the  union  is  recognized  they 
would  be  in  a  position  to  require  all  men  to  join 
the  union.  Before  a  man  is  discharged  the  matter 
would  have  to  be  investigated,  and  if  they  did  not 
agree,  arbitrate.  I  think  the  company  should  prove 
by  the  spotter  that  the  man  took  the  money  in  case 
he  was  accused  of  knocking  down  fares." 

That  is  the  record  of  Schmidt  as  far  as  his  wages 
are  concerned.  That  illustrates  his  attitude  to- 
wards this  company  and  what  reason  is  there  for  it? 
A  man  who  has  been  with  the  company  now  not 
quite  two  years  and  he  is  having  a  regular  income 
from  his  labor  with  this  company  of  approximately 
165.00  a  month;  more  than  that,  if  he  works 
steadily,  at  almost  the  beginning,  you  might  say, 
of  his  employment. 

P.  M.  PORTEE : 

He  is  a  motorman,  in  the  car  service  department,  at  23 
cents  an  hour.  He  is  28  years  of  age;  married  and  has 
two  children.  He  has  worked  this  time  for  the  company 
four  years  and  he  worked  a  year  for  the  company  once 
before. 

"I  get  116.50  for  seven  days.  I  pay  |8.75  rent.  My 
grocery  bill  is  |5.00  a  week.  I  have  had  to  work  overtime 
sometimes.  The  reason  was  the  man  who  was  to  relieve 
me,  quit,  and  they  had  no  extra  man  to  take  my  run.    I 


34 

always  thought  they  did  not  pay  wages  enough.  I  joined 
the  union  October  29th.  I  do  not  know  where  I  could 
make  as  much  as  I  do." 

There  is  a  man  who  has  been  with  the  company  four 
years ;  has  a  regular  run  and  makes  23  cents  an  hour.  He 
is  entitled  to  take  out  his  run.  This  record  shows  he  has 
an  earning  capacity  if  he  does  take  out  his  run,  of  more 
than  $66.00  a  month.  In  the  month  of  June  he  only 
earned  |45.59,  because  he  did  not  work.  He  did  not  work 
at  all  until  the  9th  of  June,  and  then  he  loafed  several 
days  thereafter.  In  July  he  made  $62.08,  and  he  lost  four 
days  that  month,.  In  August  he  only  made  $53.07.  He 
did  not  work  at  all  from  the  4th  to  the  11th,  both  inclusive, 
of  August,  and  he  lost  time  on  other  occasions  also  during 
that  month.  In  September  and  October  he  made  $63.63, 
and  $64.79,  respectively.  Now  he  thinks  he  ought  to  have 
more  pay,  and  yet  he  is  working,  under  this  evidence,  about 
three-fourths  of  his  time.  Some  months  he  loses  a  whole 
week  at  a  time,  and  some  months  he  loses  eight  and  ten 
days  at  a  time.  He  asks  you  gentlemen  to  give  him  a  raise 
in  pay  when  the  company  can  get  all  the  men  it  needs  for 
the  pay  it  does  offer.  He  wants  you  to  raise  the  pay  for 
his  benefit  so  he  can  make  more  money.  He  has  within 
his  own  hands  the  means  of  making  more  money  by  work- 
ing more  steadily. 

W.  B.  Akard: 

He  is  in  the  car  service  department  as  a  motorman;  he 
makes  21  cents  an  hour;  he  has  a  wife  and  four  children. 
His  grocery  bill  is  $5.00  to  $6.00  a  week.  Akard  said  he 
had  been  in  the  merchants  business  but  was  burned  out, 
and  lost  practically  everything  he  had.  He  is  here  work- 
ing for  this  company  saving  to  get  back  in  business  again. 


35 

He  said  lie  is  saving  on  an  average,  and  has  saved  on  an 
average  through  the  extra  list,  and  all,  an  average  of  |100 
a  year.  In  June  he  made  |57.96;  In  July,  |65.12;  in 
August,  165.60;  in  September,  |63.36;  in  October,  |64.87. 

He  works  pretty  regularly.  He  loses  on  an  average 
about  two  or  three  days  a  month,  but  for  the  most  part 
he  works  pretty  regularly,  and  he  is  getting  along  all 
right. 

By  the  way,  in  the  testimony  of  Mr.  Akard,  there  is  a 
full  account  of  his  wages  during  the  time  he  was  working 
through  the  extra  list.  He  had  it  by  the  week,  gave  all 
the  time  covering  the  period  of  a  couple  of  years,  and  it 
shows  he  made  very  good  money  while  working  on  the 
extra  list.  In  fact,  he  has  kept  up  his  average  of  savings 
at  the  rate  of  |100  a  year,  and  he  has  quite  a  good  sized 
family. 

G.  D.  Miller: 

He  has  a  wife  and  one  child.  It  took  him  four  months 
to  get  through  the  extra  list.  He  worked  most  of  the 
time.  He  lives  twenty-two  squares  from  the  barn,  in  a 
rooming  house,  paying  |4.50  a  week  rent ;  |4.50  a  week  for 
groceries. 

"I  formerly  worked  at  Beech  Grove  for  |2.00  a  day  and 
at  the  Panhandle  Shops  for  |1.70,  and  $1.75  a  day,  and 
worked  at  Kokomo  for  the  L.  E.  &  W.  at  17  cents.  I 
worked  at  Kokomo  in  a  butcher  shop  at  |15.00  a  week  for 
a  short  time,  and  then  got  this  place."  "Good  places," 
he  said,  "at  |15.00  a  week  are  hard  to  get."  He  said  that 
when  asked  why  he  did  not  get  somehting  better  if  he  did 
not  like  this. 

He  made  $55.11  in  June;  in  July  dropping  back  to 
$43.72,  because  he  did  not  work  from  the  10th  to  the  17th 


36 

of  July,  and  lost  two  days  further  on  in  tliat  month.  In 
August  he  came  up  again  and  made  |59.88.  He  worked 
that  month  all  except  one  day.  In  September  he  made 
153.28.  In  October  he  made  |50.45,  losing  two  or  three 
days,  and  having  two  days  when  he  worked  only  48 
minutes;  but  he  made  over  |50.00. 

There  is  a  lot  of  this.  We  lay  before  your  Honors  the 
wage  earnings  of  every  man  who  testified  here  on  behalf 
of  this  committee.  I  will  not  read  more,  but  I  submit  that 
I  have  read  enough  to  show  that  in  most  cases  they  have 
not  a  real  grievance  so  far  as  their  wages  are  concerned, 
and  that  those  men  who  complain  the  very  loudest,  are 
the  ones  that  work  the  least.  All  that  is  further  illustrated 
by  the  fact  that  more  than  forty  men  came  in  here  who 
have  been  with  this  company  for  years,  old  and  steady 
men,  that  have  worked  for  this  company  many  years,  and 
each  and  every  one  of  them  said  they  were  making  good 
wages,  making  more  than  they  could  elsewhere;  that  they 
were  well  satisfied,  and  perfectly  willing  to  go  on. 

Chairman  Duncan:     Have  you  Mr.  White's  wage? 

Mr.  Latta:  Yes.  I  have  his  wage  .  He  makes  a  very 
good  wage.  He  has  been  with  the  company,  of  course,  for 
quite  a  while.  I  have  Mr.  Brown's  here  also.  He  made 
179.92  in  June;  |84.37  in  July;  |84.57  in  August;  |63.94 
in  September;  |78.59  in  October.  Those  are  the  earnings 
of  Mr.  Brown. 

Mr..  Payne:    He  works  steadily? 

Mr.  Latta  :  Yes.  In  June  he  laid  off  one  day.  In  July 
he  worked  every  day,  and  in  August  he  worked  every  day. 
In  September  he  laid  off  two  days,  and  in  October  one  day ; 
so  he  worked  pretty  steadily,  but  he  makes  over  |80.00  a 
month. 

Now,  I  want  to  call  your  Honors'  attention  to  the  com- 


37 

pilations  of  the  time  and  wages  of  the  regular  motormen 
and  conductors  introduced  in  evidence  here  in  connection 
with  the  large  rolls  showing  their  precise  time  and  wages. 
I  had  these  read  at  the  time  by  Mr.  Foley  and  your  Honors 
remember  what  they  sTiowed;  but  I  have  had  a  computa- 
tion made  from  these  figures,  and  I  wish  to  read  it : 

"CONDUCTORS  AND  MOTORMEN,  SHOWING  REG- 
ULAR MEN  WORKING  AT  THE  FOUR  BARNS 
DURING  THE  MONTH  OF  JANUARY,  1913. 

"Number  of  men  on  Pay  Rolls 468 

Time  scheduled  on  Regular  Runs. .   153,122  hrs.  32  min. 

Time  actually  worked 126,578  hrs.  08  min. 

Loss i26,544  hrs.  24  min. 

Average  loss  per  man 56  hrs.  43  min. 

Pay  roll  called  for  by  full  regular 

runs 134,014.86 

Pay  roll  actually  earned  and  paid  28,087.14 

Loss 5,927.72 

Average  loss  per  man 12.67 

Avel'age   earnings   called   for  by 

schedule  72.68  per  man 

Average  actual  earnings 60.01  per  man 

Chairman  Duncan  :  If  the  regular  men  work  the  full 
schedule  time,  there  would  be  no  work  for  the  extra  men? 

Mr.  Latta  :  No,  I  don't  so  understand  it.  I  do  not  know 
whether  there  would,  but,  of  course,  the  extra  men  take 
the  place  of  the  regular  men  when  they  lay  off.  Whether 
the  regular  runs  take  up  all  the  runs  or  not,  I  do  not 
know. 

Mr.  Mahoney:  We  have  61  unassigned  runs  the  extra 
men  work ;  61  crews. 


38 

Mr.  Latta  :  These  would  have  to  be  run  by  extra  men 
anyway. 

The  same  computation  for  the  month  of  June,  the  month 
of  the  increase,  is  as  follows : 

SHOWING    REGULAR    MEN    WORKING    AT    ALL 

FOUR  BARNS  DURING  THE  MONTH  OF  JUNE, 

1913,  CONDUCTORS  AND  MOTORMEN. 

Regular  men  on  pay  roll 557 

Time  scheduled  on  regular  runs 164,001  hrs.  05  min. 

Time  actually  worked 138,020  hrs.  32  min. 

Loss 25,980  hrs.  33  min. 

Average  loss  per  man 46  hrs.  39  min. 

Pay  roll  called  for  by  full  regular 

runs 140,136.70 

Pay  roll  actually  earned  and  paid  34,157.63 

Loss 5,979.07 

Average  loss  per  man   10.73 

Average    earnings    called    for    by 

schedule  (per  man)    72.05 

Average  actual  earnings  per  man  . . .  61.32 

I  want  to  call  your  Honor's  attention  to  the  fact  that  the 
increase  of  one  cent  an  hour,  which  took  effect  at  that  time, 
produced  a  difference  in  the  actual  wages  of  these  men  of 
$1.30  a  month.  In  the  month  of  January  they  made  $60.01 
a  month  on  an  average.  In  the  month  of  June  Ihej  made 
$61.32  on  an  average. 

Chairman  Duncan:  You  mean  that  was  their  own 
fault? 

Mr.  Latta:  I  mean  they  did  not  work.  The  fact  that 
the  company  paid  them  a  cent  more  on  the  hour  only  re- 


39 

suited  in  an  actual  net  increase  in  the  earnings  of  the  men 
of  11.30  a  month. 

Mr.  Clark  :    They  laid  off  more? 

Mr.  Latta  :  They  laid  off  more.  There  was  less  work- 
ing. 

Mr.  McClure:  Do  you  have  the  computation  there 
showing  the  actual  amount  of  increase  in  the  aggregate 
of  the  money  paid  by  the  company  for  that  service? 

Mr.  Latta:  I  have  not,  but  I  have  the  estimated  in- 
crease at  one  cent  an  hour  of  the  present  pay  roll,  |22,810 
dollars. 

Chairman  Duncan:  The  runs  average  about  eleven 
and  a  half  hours.  A  ten  hours'  run  would  increase  his 
wages  ten  cents  a  day? 

Mr.  Latta:  That  would  be  three  dollars  3  month,  ap- 
proximately. The  point  I  am  making  in  connection  with 
this  is  that  this  company  gave  the  man  voluntarily  in 
June  an  increase  of  one  cent  an  hour,  which,  upon  the 
figures  produced  here,  cost  the  company  |22,000  to  |23,000, 
but  that  its  effect  was  only  to  produce  a  net  increase  in 
the  actual  earnings  of  the  regular  men  of  |1.30  a  month. 

Mr,  Payne:  If  they  had  worked  regularly  it  would 
only  have  amounted  to  |3.00. 

Mr.  Latta:  Very  well,  but  the  point  is  this:  These 
gentlemen  are  asking  you  to  raise  the  wages  again  at  the 
end  of  six  months,  practically  so — seven  months — from 
the  time  that  that  increase  was  voluntarily  granted  by 
this  company.  I  am  saying  that  the  emergency,  the  cause, 
for  raising  these  wages,  does  not,  in  fact,  exist,  as  is 
shown  by  the  manner  of  the  men  in  taking  advantage  of 
the  raise  they  got  before.  In  other  words,  if  these  men 
were  in  hard  lines,  if  they  were  not  making  a  living  wage, 
if  they  were  not  making  such  a  good  wage  they  could 


40 

indulge  themselves  in  the  loss  of  two-thirds  of  the  in- 
crease they  then  got  th^  would  have  greedily  seized  that 
13.00  a  month  and  availed  themselves  of  it.  Their  actual 
loss  per  man  for  the  month  of  January  for  failure  to  work 
— regular  men — their  actual  loss  per  man  was  $12.67. 

Chairman  Duncan:    You  mean  the  average? 

Mr.  Latta:    I  am  speaking  of  the  average. 

Chairman  Duncan:  That  is  not  very  significant  to 
me,  that  average  loss.  You  take  eight  hundred  men  and 
fifty  indifferent  men  will  make  the  average  low. 

Mr.  Latta  :  Your  Honor,  there  must  be  a  great  many 
men  who  lay  off  to  produce  a  result  of  that  kind.  You 
take  180.00  a  month — say  the  men  make  fSO.OO  a  month — 
this  shows  their  average  is  $72.00. 

Chairman  Duncan  :  That  would  be  about  one-sixth  of 
their  time  lost. 

Mr.  Latta  :    That  is  $12.00  out  of  $72.00. 

Chairman  Duncan  :    About  one-sixth  of  their  time. 

Mr.  Latta  :  Yes,  one-sixth  of  their  time  they  do  not 
work.  The  point  is  this,  your  Honor,  there  must  be  an 
ability  upon  the  part  of  these  men  to  live  according  to 
their  own  desires  for  less  than  the  amount  of  wages  they 
are  making  so  the^^  indulge  themselves  in  the  privilege  of 
laying  off  to  some  extent. 

Chairman  Duncan  :  My  idea  of  that  would  be — do  you 
not  think  it  is  absolutely  essential  for  them  to  lay  off? 

Mr.  Latta  :  Yes,  I  do.  But  one-sixth  of  your  time — is 
there  any  one  of  us  that  indulges  to  this  extent; — one- 
sixth  of  his  time  when  he  does  not  work  at  all? 

Chairman  Duncan:  I  lose  nearly  every  Sunday;  that 
is  about  one-seventh  of  it. 

Mr.  Latta  :  If  it  be  true,  that  the  men  were  working  all 
except  Sunday,  and  they  needed  the  money,  would  not  the 


41 

increase  of  a  cent  an  hour  voluntarily  granted  by  this 
company  in  June,  produce  a  better  result  to  them  than  it 
did?    It  most  certainly  would. 

The  claim  has  been  made  here,  your  Honors,  that  the 
wages  of  these  men  have  not  been  advanced  in  proportion 
to  the  earnings  of  the  company,  and  they  found  that 
claim  upon  the  testimony  of  Mr.  White,  who  gave  us  a 
very  elaborate  and  detailed  account  of  the  money  he  had 
collected,  the  number  of  fares  he  had  collected  and  the 
amount  of  his  wages.  As  a  result  of  that,  however,  we 
found  that  in  1905  the  wages  of  this  witness  amounted  to 
.0021  for  each  passenger  he  carried,  and  that  his  wages 
had  continuously  increased  every  year  until,  in  1913,  his 
wages  were  .0029  on  every  passenger  he  carried,  thereby 
demonstrating  that  in  spite  of  the  fact  as  he  claimed  that 
the  cars  were  larger  and  the  volume  of  the  traffic  had  in- 
creased, and  that  each  conductor  was  bringing  into  this 
company  more  money  than  he  formerly  did,  the  wages  of 
the  conductors  themselves  (and,  of  course,  the  motormen, 
have  advanced  proportionately),  have  increased  faster 
than  the  productivity  of  the  cars  and  the  productivity  of 
their  own  labor  as  operators  of  the  cars.  We  have  also 
put  forward  what  is  to  me  the  true  test  of  fairness  in  in- 
creasing wages;  a  comparative  statement  of  the  revenue 
per  car  mile,  and  a  comparative  statement  of  the  platform 
expense  per  car  mile.  It  is  all  right  to  indulge  in  highflown 
theories  about  the  proportion  of  the  revenues  of  this  com- 
pany, or  any  particular  business,  labor  should  have.  There 
is  no  way  of  determining.  If  we  undertake  to  do  that,  we 
have  no  measure  at  all  to  go  by.  No.  man  knows  how  much 
a  man  is  worth  as  set  over  against  a  sum  of  money  as 
capital  invested.  That  is  not  the  method  upon  which 
business  is  conducted.  The  owner  of  the  business  takes 
the  risk  of  the  business  and  takes  the  risk  of  loss  in  the 


42 

business,  and  he  must  pay  the  wages  that  are  necessary  to 
carry  on  the  business  even  to  the  point  of  a  failure  as  far 
as  he  himself  is  concerned.  But  if  we  undertake  it  at  all, 
it  is  fair  to  say  that  there  is  one  basis  only  upon  which  we 
can  compare  the  advance  in  wages  with  the  advance  in 
prosperity  of  the  business  itself.  Only  one  test  which  can 
be  applied  to  the  street  railway  business.  It  must  be  by 
comparing  the  earnings  and  platform  expense  per  car  mile. 
You  send  a  man  out  to  run  a  car  a  mile,  and  the  man  must 
run  it.  If  you  earn  a  million  dollars  within  a  year  by 
running  so  many  miles,  and  two  million  the  next  year  by 
running  twice  as  many,  you  have  to  have  the  men  to  man 
those  cars,  to  run  those  miles.  Labor  and  capital  come 
together  in  the  street  railway  business  in  operating  one 
car  one  mile,  and  in  producing  the  revenue,  whatever  it 
is,  which  may  result  from  operating  that  car  that  mile. 
This  is  where  labor  and  capital  come  together  in  this  par- 
ticular business.  Now  this  company — ^your  Honors  have 
these  figures  before  you — this  company  from  the  year  1906, 
including  nine  months  of  1913  has  presented  a  statement 
of  its  earnings  per  car  mile  showing  the  following  rate  of 
increase.  In  1906  the  increase  was  6.340  per  cent,  in  earn- 
ings. In  1906  the  increase  in  wages  of  motormen  and  con- 
ductors— the  platform  expense  per  car  mile  was  5.724 
per  cent.  In  that  year  the  company  gained  a  little  over 
the  men  in  increase  in  earnings.  In  1907  the  increase  in 
earnings  per  car  mile  was  2.625  per  cent.  In  the  same  year 
the  increase  of  the  men  in  platform  expense  was  3.150  per 
cent.  The  men  went  ahead  of  the  company  in  that  year. 
In  1908  the  increase  to  the  company  was  0.438  of  one  per 
cent,  in  increased  earnings  per  car  mile,  and  in  the  sam' 
year  there  was  an  increase  in  the  earnings  of  the  men  per 
car  mile  of  1,289  of  one  per  cent.  In  1909  the  company 
made  an  increase  in  its  earnings  per  car  mile  of  2.910  per 


43 

cent.  The  same  year  the  men  increased  the  platform  ex- 
pense 2.435  per  cent.  The  company  made  a  very  slight 
gain  over  the  men  that  year.  In  1910  the  company  in- 
creased in  its  car  earnings  2.015  of  one  per  cent.,  while  the 
men  increased  1.505  of  one  per  cent.  The  company  gained 
a  little  that  year  over  the  men.  In  1911  the  company  made 
a  very  slight  increase,  0.003  of  one  per  cent.  The  men, 
however,  made  a  very  large  increase,  3.287  of  one  per  cent. 
In  1912  the  company  made  a  very  slight  increase,  0.003  of 
one  per  cent.,  while  the  men  went  ahead  1.705  per  cent. 
In  1913,  the  first  nine  months,  the  company  made  a  gain  of 
1.381  per  cent.,  while  the  men  made  a  gain  of  2.127  per 
cent. 

Now,  I  have  that  in  a  chart  graphically,  showing  here 
by  solid  lines  the  percentage  of  increase  in  car  earnings  per 
car  mile  and  by  dotted  lines  the  percentage  of  increase  in 
platform  expense  per  car  mile,  showing,  if  it  can  be  truth- 
fully said  that  there  is  a  basis  for  comparing  the  advance- 
ment which  should  be  made  by  labor  with  the  advance- 
ment which  should  be  made  by  capital,  that  these  men  have 
increased  faster  than  the  company  has  increased  through- 
out this  period,  and  for  the  past  two  and  three-fourths 
years  they  have  increased  very  largely  over  the  company. 
In  1911  and  1912  we  made  practically  no  increase  at  all. 


44 


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45 


AT  THIS  POINT  THE  COMMISSION  ADJOURNED 
UNTIL  9:00  O'CLOCK  A.  M.,  JANUARY  8th,  1914. 

January  8,  1914 
Nine  o'clock  A.  M. 

THE  COMMISSION  MET  PURSUANT  TO  AD- 
JOURNMENT, AND  W.  H.  LATTA,  ESQ.,  CONTINUED 
HIS  ARGUMENT  AS  FOLLOWS : 

I  next  wish  to  call  your  Honors'  attention  to  the  chart 
showing  the  various  rates  of  wages  paid  by  companies  in 
this  vicinity,  which  we  produce  here  in  evidence.  This,  of 
course,  is  not  at  all  conclusive,  but  it  does  furnish  some 
light,  it  seems  to  me,  upon  the  question  that  is  before  this 
Commission.  The  committee  also  introduced  a  chart  of 
wages  paid  in  various  parts  of  the  country,  and  if  I  were 
disposed  to  take  any  advantage  of  their  chart,  I  could  prob- 
ably predicate  a  stronger  argument  upon  their  chart  than 
upon  my  own,  because  in  every  instance  it  showed  the 
initial  wage  was  less  than  in  Indianapolis,  but  it  seemed 
to  me  in  fairness,  we  should  have  this  chart  to  show  what 
the  rate  is  in  the  immediate  vicinity  of  Indianapolis,  even 
considering  those  cities  which  are  larger  and  more  popu- 
lous, and  where  the  earnings  are  undoubtedly  greater  than 
they  are  here. 


46 


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47 

I  call  your  attention  to  the  fact  that  this  shows  that 
the  initial  rate  of  wage  in  Cincinnati,  even  as  a  result  of 
arbitration,  and  in  Dayton  and  Springfield,  Ohio,  is  twen- 
ty- cents.  The  initial  rate  of  wage  at  Columbus,  Ohio,  is 
20^  cents.  The  initial  rate  at  Baltimore  is  nineteen  and 
at  Washington  it  is  21i/^.  At  Kansas  City  it  is  21  cents, 
and  at  some  larger  cities,  such  as  Chicago,  it  is  23.  In 
Saint  Louis  it  is  23.  In  Louisville  it  is  21.  Nashville,  how- 
ever, it  is  18.  That,  by  comparison,  would  seem  to  indi- 
cate that  our  initial  rate  is  not  out  of  proportion  to  the 
initial  rate  in  other  cities,  and  the  subsequent  rate  for 
the  men  who  have  been  in  the  service  longer  is  fairly  well 
proportionate  to  the  rates  in  other  cities.  In  Louisville 
they  do  not  get  23  cents,  without  reference  to  the  length 
of  employment.  In  Cincinnati,  when  our  men  are  earn- 
ing 25  cents,  their  men  are  earning  24.  Even  in  the  seven  Ih 
and  eighth  year  under  the  late  arbitration  in  Cincinnati, 
they  are  earning  24  cents,  while  we  pay  our  men  25  cents 
in  the  sixth  year.  They  reach  25  cents  at  the  ninth  year, 
by  the  arbitration  in  Cincinnati.  In  Springfield,  Ohio, 
they  reach  25  cents  one  year  before  we  reach  it  here,  and 
at  Dayton  they  seem  to  have  the  same  rate,  while  in  Co- 
lumbus they  start  at  201/2  cents  and  241/2  cents  is  the 
highest  they  reach.  In  Washington  they  start  at  2II/2 
cents,  but  never  get  above  2314  cents.  In  Baltimore 
they  start  at  19,  and  22  cents  is  the  highest  they  ever 
reach.  So  that  this  chart  as  a  whole  would  indicate, 
as  it  seems  to  me,  not  only  that  our  initial  rate  is  a 
decent  rate,  the  kind  of  rate  that  will  draw  to  us  the 
proper  sort  of  men,  and  plenty  of  them,  but  it  is  a  rate 
which  in  other  cities  seems  to  produce  a  proper  kind  of 
labor  for  the  operation  of  the  cars,  and  it  takes  a  much 
larger  city  than  Indianapolis  to  stand  a  greater  initial 
rate  than  we  have  here. 


48 

Also,  I  want  to  call  your  Honors'  attention  to  the  tes- 
timony of  Mr.  Euliss,  who  was  a  witness  here  for  this 
committee  and  who  said  that  about  the  time  the  strike  be- 
came imminent,  just  before  the  strike  was  called,  he  went 
to  Mr.  Mahoney's  otQ.ce.  He  went  on  his  own  responsibil- 
ity, it  is  true.  He  did  not  represent  anybody ;  he  did  not 
represent  these  men;  but  his  thought  in  that  connection 
is  worth  considering  because  he  has  had  experience  here 
in  this  city  running  through  a  number  of  years,  and  his 
suggestion  to  Mr.  Mahoney  upon  that  occasion  is  of  some 
value,  it  seems  to  me,  to  this  Commission.  He  suggested 
an  initial  rate  of  20  cents.  He  did  not  purport  at  that 
time  to  say  that  the  initial  wage  should  be  raised.  His 
idea  was  to  add  more  compensation  in  later  years.  He 
said  that  men  who  had  been  employed  five  or  six  or  seven 
years  should  get  27  cents;  a  man  who  had  served  over 
seven  years  should  get  28  cents.  But  the  initial  rate 
should  remain  at  20  cents,  even  according  to  the  sugges- 
tion of  Mr.  Euliss. 

Passing  from  that  subject  then,  to  the  comparison  of 
these  wages  with  the  cost  of  living,  I  want  to  say  that  I 
have  conceded  from  the  very  beginning  that  I  consider 
this  a  fair  matter  to  be  taken  into  consideration.  It  en- 
ters into  the  question  of  the  real  wage  as  distinguished 
from  the  nominal  wage,  which  is  a  recognized  distinction 
taken  into  consideration  by  all  economists.  It  is  what  a 
wage  will  buy,  and  that  is  the  real  wage.  As  a  preface  to 
that,  I  wisli  to  call  your  attention  to  the  table  which  has 
been  introduced  in  evidence,  and  is  without  question  true ; 
of  the  various  increases  in  wage  which  have  been  made 
by  this  company  voluntarily  to  its  men  from  time  to  time, 
beginning  in  the  year  1905  and  extending  up  to  the  present 
time.  In  the  year  1905  the  initial  wage  was  16  cents,  and 
the  highest  wage  was  18  cents.     In  December  of  1905, 


49 

which,  of  course,  projected  it  into  the  year  1906,  the  initial 
wage  was  made  17  cents,  and  the  highest  wage  was  19 
cents.  In  1907  the  initial  wage  was  made  18  cents,  and 
the  highest  wage  was  20  cents,  and  so  it  has  progressed 
year  after  year  to  the  present  time,  when  in  June  of  this 
year,  the  initial  rate  was  made  20  cents,  and  the  highest 
wage  at  five  years  and  over  was  made  25  cents.  Now,  it 
is  in  evidence  here  that  the  board  of  arbitration  sitting 
in  the  railroad  controversy  in  the  east  which  considered 
the  wages  of  all  the  railroad  men  north  of  the  Ohio  River 
and  east  of  the  Mississippi  River,  and  considered  well  and 
carefully  the  question  of  the  increased  cost  of  living,  de- 
cided that  the  increased  cost  of  living  was  approximately 
seven  per  cent,  in  the  past  five  years.  I  introduced  also 
printed  and  published  tables  from  the  Indianapolis  papers 
from  which  a  computation  showed  that  the  increased  cost 
in  prices  figured  laterally  over  all  the  articles  in  that  five 
years  amounted  to  6i/^  per  cent. 

Now,  in  my  judgment  the  committee  did  not  do  much  to 
enlighten  your  Honors  upon  this  subject.  They  intro- 
ducedj  as  I  remember,  some  lady  who  had  a  stand  on  the 
market,  whose  principal  effort  seemed  to  be  to  try  to  show 
that  there  is  a  combination  between  the  market  stand- 
holders;  and  they  introduced  also  some  scattered  testi- 
mony during  the  course  of  their  evidence  to  the  effect  that 
things  cost  more  than  formerly;  but  we  made  an  attempt 
to  bring  to  this  Commission  the  figures,  to  show  wherein 
the  cost  of  living  had  increased ;  in  what  particular  and  to 
what  extent.  I  think  we  established  with  considerable  ac- 
curacy the  fact  that  rents  have  not  increased.  This  item 
constitutes  in  all  probability  one-fourth  to  one-fifth  of  the 
cost  of  living.  We  showed  that  the  cost  of  clothing  has 
not  increased.  We  showed  that  the  cost  of  shoes  has  not 
increased,  if   shoes   are   carefully   bought   and   properly 


50 

bought  for  service.  We  showed  that  on  the  whole,  tlie 
cost  of  groceries  has  not  increased.  Some  articles  have 
increased,  others  have  decreased,  but  on  the  whole,  groc- 
eries are  not  much  higher  now  than  previously.  One  wit- 
ness said,  I  believe,  they  might  be  as  much  as  five  per 
cent,  higher,  but  as  I  remember,  most  of  the  witnesses  said 
the  cost  of  groceries  was  practically  the  same,  taken  as 
a  whole.  We  showed  the  great  increase  has  been  in  the 
choice  cuts,  or  what  is  very  properly  denominated  the 
fashionable  cuts,  of  meats.  That  testimony  was  very 
illuminating.  For  instance,  one  witness  testified  as  to 
lamb  chops.  You  kill  a  lamb  and  there  are  six  chops  in 
either  side  of  the  lamb.  Every  man  who  desires  to  buy 
lamb,  wants  lamb  chops.  The  balance  of  the  lamb,  for 
the  most  part,  goes  begging,  and  it  is  the  same  way  with 
other  cuts  of  meat  of  various  kinds.  These  other  cuts 
are  equally  as  nourishing  and  equally  as  palatable,  and 
just  as  desirable,  except  they  are  not  quite  as  fashionable. 
And  they  have  not  increased  in  price  to  any  such  extent. 
Therefore,  I  believe  it  seems  fair  to  say  that  the  finding  of 
the  eastern  board  of  arbitration  is  not  far  wrong.  That 
investigation  spread  over  all  the  various  articles  compris- 
ing the  total  cost  of  living.  The  average  increase  will  not 
exceed  six  or  seven  per  cent,  or  in  that  neighborhood.  The 
only  thing  to  the  contrary  that  has  been  shown  here  that 
pretends  to  amount  to  anytliing  is  the  tabluation  by  the 
Department  of  Labor  at  Washington.  I  wish  to  call  your 
Honors'  attention  to  the  fact  that  that  tabulation  is  not 
reliable.  You  can  make  most  anything  out  of  a  tabulation 
If  you  proceed  as  the  department  did  in  that  case.  For 
instance,  their  figures  on  the  cost  of  meat,  which  is  illus- 
trative and  the  most  important  item, — they  gave  certain 
percentages  on  the  cost  of  meat;  it  appeared,  however, 
that  the  quotations  were  furnished  by  six  Indianapolis 


51 

meat  dealers  out  of  a  total  of  more  than  eight  hundred. 
They  furnished  quotations  like  this,  "Sirloin  steak,  former- 
ly 20  cents,  now  28  cents  a  pound."  We  have  shown  be- 
yond any  question  that  it  is  not  necessary  in  Indianapolis 
to  pay  28  cents  a  pound  for  sirloin  steak.  "Round  steak,  20 
to  25  cents,  and  rib  roast  17  to  20  cents  a  pound  increase. ' 
The  others  are  in  like  proportion.  Of  course,  I  presume 
there  are  places  in  Indianapolis  where  a  man  might  pay 
28  cents  a  pound  for  sirloin  steak,  but  reputable  dealers 
have  been  introduced  here,  men  who  have  large  places  of 
business  located  in  prominent  parts  of  the  City  of  Indi- 
anapolis, who  have  been  in  business  for  years,  and  who 
must  please  their  customers.  They  could  not  continue  in 
business  unless  they  furnished  the  right  kind  of  meat  and 
satisfied  their  customers.  They  tell  you  it  is  not  neces- 
sary to  pay  such  prices,  and  if  you  are  willing  to  take  the 
less  fashionable  cuts,  it  is  perfectly  feasible  nowadays  to 
get  good  meat  at  a  reasonable  price. 

If  it  be  true  that  the  increased  cost  of  living,  taking 
into  consideration  all  the  different  articles,  will  not  aver- 
age more  than  seven  or  eight  or  ten  per  cent.,  then  it  is 
established  here  that  this  company  has  been  fair  with  its 
employes  on  the  subject  of  wages,  because  in  that  same 
length  of  time  it  has  increased  the  initial  wage  eleven  per 
cent.,  and  it  has  increased  the  wage  of  those  men  who  have 
remained  with  the  company  year  after  year,  and  are 
veterans  in  its  service  20  per  cent.  This  company  has 
kept  pace  with  the  increase  in  the  cost  of  living;  more 
than  kept  pace. 

Chairman  Duncan:  Does  not  that  argument  assume 
that  the  wage  was  a  proper  one  in  1905? 

Mr.  Latta:  It  does  assume  it  was  a  proper  wage  in 
1905,  and  does  not  the  evidence  in  this  case  satisfy  your 
Honor  it  was  a  proper  wage  in  1905?    For  twenty  years 


52 

there  has  been  no  friction  between  this  company  and  its 
men  over  the  question  of  wage.  For  more  than  twenty 
years  there  has  never  been  a  murmur  from  the  men  that 
they  were  not  paid  a  proper  wage.  Eight  here  in  Indi- 
anapolis where  there  are  thousands  of  employers  and 
where  there  are  thousands  of  men  being  employed  in  all 
the  vaious  lines  of  endeavor,  we  have  competed  sucess- 
fully  and  have  satisfied  our  men  with  our  rate  of  wage. 
We  are  dealing  now  with  a  question  that  involves  in  its 
initial  stage  common  labor,  and  at  its  further  stages  labor 
which  does  not  require  any  particular  skill,  at  least  no 
especial  apprenticeship.  We  have  shown  that  year  after 
year  and  year  after  year  these  men  have  gone  on  apparent- 
ly satisfied  with  their  wages,  and  no  friction  has  developed 
between  the  company  and  its  men.  Could  there  be  any 
stronger  evidence  that  the  wage  of  1905  was  a  proper 
wage?  If  a  wage  is  satisfactory,  is  it  not  a  proper  wage? 
Is  there  any  other  test  by  which  to  determine  whether  a 
wage  is  proper?  The  evidence  shows  that  in  1892  there 
was  a  strike  which  was  an  uncalled  for  and  and  unjustifi- 
able strike;  which  broke  up  the  union;  known  as  the 
"Nancy  Hank"  strike.  From  that  date  until  1913  these 
men  have  been  going  along  without  any  trouble  at  all, 
without  any  complaints  of  their  wage,  and  without  any 
dissatisfaction,  I  believe,  your  Honor,  I  have  a  perfect 
right  to  assume  that  the  wage  in  1905  was  a  proper  wage, 
from  that  evidence. 

Now,  I  wish  to  spend  a  short  time,  and  a  short  time 
only,  on  the  subject  of  captalization.  These  gentlemen 
have  complained  about  the  evidence  on  the  subject  of  cap- 
italization. I  say  they  have  no  grounds  for  complaint.  If 
we  were  attempting  to  reduce  these  wages,  it  would  be  in- 
cumbent then  upon  us  to  show  all  the  facts  essential  to 
make  a  case  for  the  reduction  of  wages ;  and  if  in  connec- 


53 

tion  with  an  attempt  to  reduce  the  wages,  we  were  making 
an  attempt  to  show  here  we  could  not  pay  anything  to  the 
men  who  have  their  money  invested  in  this  property,  it 
might  very  well  be  said  we  should  show  with  particularity, 
to  this  Commission,  the  amount  of  money  invested,  or 
the  amount  of  money  now  involved  in  this  property.  But 
that  is  not  the  contention  here.  The  burden  is  upon  them 
to  show,  if  they  desire  to  make  any  point  in  this  connec- 
tion, that  this  property  is  over-capitalized — and  they  have 
not  shown  it,  and  for  the  very  good  reason  that  they  could 
not  show  it.  So  they  have  no  grounds  for  complaint,  your 
Honors,  that  we  have  left  this  case  without  a  physical  val- 
uation of  this  property,  which  would  probably  cost  many 
thousands  of  dollars,  and  involve  an  examination  running 
over  several  months.  You  cannot  make  a  physical  valua- 
tion of  this  property  in  a  moment.  It  is  a  great,  com- 
plex affair,  and  it  takes  special  knowledge  and  skill  to 
make  a  physical  valuation.  The  evidence  generally  shows 
this:  That  in  the  year  1899,  after  it  had  emerged  in  a 
sort  of  a  way  from  the  horse  car  day — it  had  been  ten  years 
since  the  time  the  first  electrical  street  car  was  operated 
in  Indianapolis, — in  the  year  1899,  there  were  various 
franchises.  In  West  Indianapolis;  in  Haughville;  in  Irv- 
ington  and  in  various  places,  separate  franchises  had  been 
granted  to  the  street  railway  companies  in  Indianapolis . 
The  companies  owned  certain  gravel  roads  extending  into 
Indianapolis,  one  of  which  was  North  Illinois,  and  the 
other  Central  Avenue;  that  a  franchise  had  been  granted 
to  the  City  Railway  Company  to  come  down  New  Jersey 
Street  into  the  very  heart  of  Indianapolis,  and  compete 
with  the  then  existing  company. 

All  Indianapolis  was  in  a  turmoil.  Money  would  not 
come  into  Indianapolis  to  be  invested  to  improve  the 
property.     There  had  been  a  sort  of  a  half-hearted  at- 


54 

tempt  to  convert  the  property  from  a  horse  car  into  an 
electric  system.  The  power  house  was  utterly  inadequate. 
The  rails  which  had  been  used  for  horse  cars  were  insuf- 
ficient. The  little  old  cars  we  had  at  that  time  would  seem 
ridiculous  to  us  now.  A  general  settlement  was  then  en- 
tered into,  as  your  Honors  know  judicially  from  the  legis- 
lation that  was  enacted  at  that  time  by  the  General  As- 
sembly, for  in  the  year  1899  all  Indianapolis  and  all  per- 
sons interested  entered  into  that  settlement,  and  an  En- 
abling Act  was  passed  by  the  General  Assembly  providing 
for  the  collection  of  all  the  different  franchises  and  for  sur- 
rendering them  to  the  City  of  Indianapolis.  Many  were 
perpetual.  Then  there  was  a  consolidation  of  all  these 
different  companies,  after  a  new  franchise  had  been 
granted  by  the  City  of  Indianapolis,  providing  for  a  re- 
duced fare,  and  the  payment  of  Thirty  Thousand  Dollars 
a  year  into  the  treasury  of  the  city,  all  in  consideration  of 
a  general  settlement  of  the  situation  at  that  time.  Money 
had  to  be  expended  to  purchase  these  franchises.  Money 
had  to  be  expended  to  rebuild  this  property,  which  was 
was  then  in  a  ramshackle  condition  on  account  of  the  con- 
troversy that  had  been  raging  here  for  the  ten  years  since 
horse  cars  had  been  partially  done  away  with,  and  the 
first  electrical  car  run  in  Indianapolis. 

The  Indianapolis  Street  Railway  Company  then  came 
into  existence,  and  I  have  introduced  the  ordinances  of 
the  City  of  Indianapolis,  showing  that  the  City  of  In- 
dianapolis Avas  a  party  to  that  settlement;  that  not  only 
was  a  law  passed  through  the  General  Assembly  to 
authorize  it,  but  ordinances  were  passed  by  the  com- 
mon council  providing  for  the  surrender  of  all  the 
franchises  to  the  city,  and  for  a  franchise  of  limited 
term  to  be  taken;  for  the  general  reconstruction  of  the 
lines ;  and  for  the  expenditure  of  a  millon  dollars  at  least, 


55 

and  as  much  more  as  was  necessary.  Out  of  and  as  a  re- 
sult of  that  settlement  came  into  existence  this  property, 
which  has  been  developed  into  one  of  the  finest  street  rail- 
way properties  in  the  United  States. 

I  notice  that  whenever  Indianapolis  is  written  up  and 
its  manifold  advantages  are  spread  before  the  people,  one 
thing  of  importance  is  the  street  railway  property  in  In- 
dianapolis; it  is  one  of  the  things  we  are  most  proud  of. 
Men  of  this  city  Avho  have  traveled  to  the  remotest  parts 
of  the  earth,  come  back  and  say  there  is  no  finer  or  more 
efficient  street  railway  system  anywhere  than  we  have 
here.  All  this  is  the  result  of  that  settlement,  and  of  the 
Indianapolis  Street  Railway's  advent  into  the  affairs  of 
Indianapolis,  in  1899,  or  soon  thereafter. 

It  is  shown  with  particularity  how  all  that  was  done; 
how  the  bonds  and  stocks  were  issued;  what  they  brought; 
what  was  accomplished;  and  will  it  be  said  now  that  in 
a  controversy  like  this,  where  the  street  railway  company 
is  not  attempting  to  reduce  these  fares,  that  it  is  a  proper 
subject  for  inquiry  whether  or  not  these  things  should 
have  been  done,  or  that  the  men  who  have  put  their  money 
and  abilities  into  this  property  can  have  their  investment 
called  in  question  without  an  opportunity  to  be  heard. 
And  have  no  day  in  court?    I  think  hardly. 

Then  again,  in  1905  there  was  a  man  lived  in  this  city 
who  had  almost  a  prophetic  vision.  He  not  only  had  the 
ability  to  look  forward  and  conceive  a  grand  enterprise. 
He  had  the  strength  of  character  to  put  it  into  execution ; 
he  had  the  ability  to  persuade  men  to  back  it.  He  had  the 
tremendous  energy  that  was  necessary  to  create  the  In- 
dianapolis Traction  &  Terminal  Company,  and  to  bring 
to  Indianapolis  the  greatest  street  railway  and  interurban 
terminal  in  the  world  then  and  today  as  well. 

Your  Honors  judicially  know  that  the  Legislature  of 


56 

Indiana  has  an  enabling  act  to  permit  that  to  be  done. 
I  have  introduced  the  ordinances  here  to  show  the  City  of 
Indianapolis  also  passed  laws  to  permit  it  to  be  done.  This 
evidence  shows  that  during  that  period  enormous  holdings 
of  real  estate  were  acquired  here  preparatory  to  its  being 
done,  and  right  in  the  heart  of  the  City  of  Indianapolis  al- 
most a  complete  square  was  acquired,  which  I  undertake 
to  say  today  is  worth  all  the  bonds  and  stocks  put  together 
of  the  Indianapolis  Traction  &  Terminal  Company. 

That  man  conceived  the  idea  that  all  the  interurban 
roads  centering  in  Indianapolis  should  be  brought  into 
one  terminal.  In  order  to  bring  about  such  a  result  great 
tact,  great  ability,  great  energy,  was  necessary  to  be  em- 
ployed. 

Will  it  be  said,  can  it  be  justly  said,  that  even  if  he 
secured  stocks  or  bonds,  or  either,  or  both,  although  there 
is  no  evidence  that  he  did,  as  a  result  of  his  energy  and 
enterprise  upon  that  occasion,  that  that  is  watered?  It 
has  just  as  much  value,  gentlemen,  as  though  he  had  paid 
money  for  every  dollar  that  he  got. 

We  have  introduced  evidence  to  show  from  the  balance 
sheets  of  that  company  for  the  past  five  years  that  it  has 
the  assets  to  correspond  with  its  bonds  and  stocks,  and 
not  only  that,  but  it  has  a  surplus.  We  have  introduced 
evidence  to  show^  that  from  1899  w^hen  that  tremendous 
scheme  was  conceived  and  brought  into  execution,  until 
the  present  day  Indianapolis  has  experienced  a  growth 
that  it  had  never  experienced  before  Practically  every 
building  of  importance  in  Indianapolis  in  the  downtown 
district  has  been  constructed  in  that  time.  The  depart- 
ment stores  have  grown  to  three  times  their  former  size. 

The  Indiana  National  Bank  has  had  a  great  prosperity. 
I  have  used  it  as  an  example.    xA.ccording  to  the  evidence. 


57 

over  and  above  its  dividends,  it  has  multiplied  its  capital 
surplus  four  times  in  that  period. 

Real  estate  has  increased  two  hundred  per  cent.,  and 
yet  these  gentlemen  say,  "How  much  money  did  you  put 
into  the  Indianapolis  Traction  and  Terminal  Company  in 
1905?"  Why,  do  you  realize,  gentlemen,  that  in  1912 
there  came  into  the  Traction  and  Terminal  Station  as  a 
result  of  that  conception  of  this  man  and  of  his  energy 
and  ability  in  putting  it  forth  6,431,714  passengers;  that 
there  were  operated  into  the  Traction  and  Terminal  Sta- 
tion 249,017  passenger  cars,  and  that  there  approached 
and  discharged  their  packages  and  freight  at  the  Ter- 
minal Express  Station  23,896  cars  during  the  same  period, 
pouring  their  golden  wealth  into  the  city  of  Indianapolis? 
The  Indianapolis  Traction  and  Terminal  Company  has  a 
right  to  participate  in  that  prosperity,  and  it  has  a  right 
to  have  its  stockholders  paid  dividends  accordingly.  Can 
it  be  justly  said  that  all  the  citizens  of  Indianapolis  may 
enjoy  the  unearned  increment  that  comes  from  such  an 
enterprise,  and  that  the  man  who  created  it  cannot  enjoy 
it  and  is  not  entitled  to  it?    Hardly. 

Mr.  Justice  Brewer,  of  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United 
States,  in  considering  a  tax  question,  has  this  to  say  of 
the  value  of  property  used  in  the  public  service.  I  am 
reading  from  the  case  of  Adams  Express  Company  v.  Ohio 
State  Auditor,  166  United  States  185,  41  Law  Edition  965, 
on  976 : 

"Now,  the  taxes  imposed  upon  express  com- 
panies by  the  statutes  of  the  three  States  of  Ohio, 
Indiana  and  Kentucky  are  certainly  not  in  terms 
'privilege  taxes.'  They  purport  to  be  upon  the 
property  of  the  companies.  They  are  therefore  not 
in  form,  at  least,  subject  to  any  of  the  denuncia- 
tions against  privilege  taxes  which  have  so  often 
come  from  the  court.    The  statutes  grant  no  privi- 


58 

lege  of  doing  an  express  business,  charge  nothing 
of  doing  such  a  business  and  contemplate  only  the 
assessment  and  levy  of  taxes  upon  the  property  of 
the  express  companies  situated  within  the  respec- 
tive States.  And  the  only  really  substantial  ques- 
tion is  whether,  properly  understood  and  adminis- 
tered, they  subject  to  the  taxing  power  of  the  State 
property  not  within  its  territorial  limits.  The 
burden  of  the  contention  of  the  express  companies 
is  that  they  have  wdthin  the  limits  of  the  State  cer- 
tain tangible  property,  such  as  horses,  wagons, 
etc. ;  that  that  tangible  property  is  their  only  prop- 
erty within  the  state;  that  it  must  be  valued  as 
other  like  property,  and  upon  such  valuation  alone 
can  taxes  be  assessed  and  levied  against  them. 

But  this  contention  practically  ignores  the  exist- 
ence of  intangible  property,  or  at  least  denies  its 
liability  for  taxation.  In  the  complex  civilization 
of  today  a  large  portion  of  the  wealth  of  a  com- 
munity consists  in  intangible  property,  and  there 
is  nothing  in  the  nature  of  things  or  in  the  limita- 
tions of  the  federal  constitution  which  restrains  a 
State  from  taxing  at  its  real  value  such  intangible 
property.  Take  the  simplest  illustration:  B,  a 
solvent  man,  purchases  from  A  certain  property, 
and  gives  to  A  his  promise  to  pay,  say  |100,000 
therefor.  Such  promise  may  or  may  not  be  evi- 
denced by  a  note  or  other  Avritten  instrument.  The 
property  conveyed  to  B  may  or  may  not  be  of  the 
value  of  1100,000.  If  there*  be  nothing  in  the  way 
of  fraud  or  misrepresentation  to  invalidate  that 
transaction,  there  exists  a  legal  promise  on  the 
part  of  B  to  pay  to  A  |100,000.  That  promise  is  a 
part  of  A's  property.  It  is  something  of  value, 
something  on  which  he  will  receive  cash,  and  which 
he  can  sell  in  the  markets  of  the  community  for 
cash.  It  is  as  certainly  property,  and  property  of 
value,  as  if  it  were  a  building  or  a  steamboat,  and 
is  as  justly  subject  to  taxation.  It  matters  not  in 
what  this  intangible  property  consists — whether 
privileges,  corporate  franchises,  contracts  or  obli- 
gations.    It  is  enough  that  it  is  property  which, 


59 

though  intangible,  exists,  which  has  value,  pro- 
duces income  and  passes  current  in  the  markets  of 
the  world.  To  ignore  this  intangible  property,  or 
to  hold  that  it  is  not  subject  to  taxation  at  its 
accepted  value,  is  to  eliminate  from  the  reach  of 
the  taxing  power  a  large  portion  of  the  wealth  of 
the  country.  Now,  whenever  separate  articles  of 
tangible  property  are  joined  together,  not  simply 
by  a  unity  of  ownership,  but  in  a  unity  of  use,  there 
is  not  infrequently  developed  a  property,  intangi- 
ble though  it  may  be,  which  in  value  exceeds  the 
aggregate  of  the  value  of  the  separate  pieces  of 
tangible  property.  Upon  what  theory  of  substan- 
tial right  can  it  be  adjudged  that  the  value  of  this 
intangible  property  must  be  excluded  from  the 
tax  lists,  and  the  only  property  placed  thereon 
the  separate  pieces  of  tangible  property? 

Mr.  Latta  :  That  is,  here  is  certain  iron  and  bricks  and 
mortar  used  in  the  construction  of  the  train  shed  of  the 
terminal  station.  That  iron  and  brick  and  mortar  may 
not  be  worth  very  much,  it  may  not  have  cost  much,  but 
into  that  iron  and  brick  and  mortar,  when  it  is  molded 
into  the  form  of  the  train  shed  of  the  terminal  station 
there  comes  a  vast  volume  of  traffic.  The  contracts  which 
bring  that  traffic  into  the  terminal  station  are  property. 
The  use  to  which  those  pieces  of  iron  and  brick  and  mor- 
tar is  put  produce  an  income,  valuable  rights  are  acquired, 
it  becomes  an  operating  whole.  There  may  be  in  tangible 
property  in  that  creation  as  a  whole,  but  it  is  property, 
nevertheless;  it  is  producing  property.  It  will  pass  for 
property  in  the  markets  of  the  world;  it  is  taxable  prop- 
erty; it  is  property  that  is  entitled  to  be  paid,  by  divi- 
dends or  otherwise,  for  its  use  in  carrying  on  the  public 
business. 

I  want  to  read  again  from  the  Supreme  Court  Reports 
of  the  United  States  in  the  case  of  the  Cleveland,  Cincin- 


60 

nati,  Chicago  &  St.  Louis  Railroad  Company  v.  Victor  M. 
Backus,  38  Law  Edition,  IO4I,  I  am  reading  from  1046. 
This  arose  in  our  own  state: 

"The  rule  of  property  taxation  is  that  the 
property  is  the  basis  of  taxation.  It  does  not 
mean  a  tax  upon  the  earnings  which  the  prop- 
erty makes,  nor  for  the  privilege  of  using  the 
property,  but  rests  solely  upon  the  value.  But 
the  value  of  property  results  from  the  use  to  which 
it  is  put  and  varies  with  the  profitableness  of  that 
use,  present  and  prospective,  actual  and  antici- 
pated. There  is  no  pecuniary  value  outside  of 
that  which  results  from  such  use.  The  amount 
and  profitable  character  of  such  use  determines 
the  value,  and  if  property  is  taxed  at  its  actual 
cash  value  it  is  taxed  upon  something  which  is 
created  by  the  uses  to  which  it  is  put.  In  the  na- 
ture of  things  it  is  practically  impossible — at 
least  in  respect  to  railroad  property — to  divide 
its  value,  and  determine  how  much  is  caused  by 
one  use  to  which  it  is  put  and  how  much  by  an- 
other. Take  the  case  before  us;  it  is  impossible 
to  disintegrate  the  value  of  that  portion  of  the 
road  within  Indiana  and  determine  how  much  of 
that  value  springs  from  its  use  in  doing  inter- 
state business,  and  how  much  from  its  use  in  do- 
ing business  wholly  within  the  state  An  attempt 
to  do  so  would  be  entering  upon  a  mere  field  of 
uncertainty  and  speculation.  And  because  of  this 
fact  it  is  something  which  an  assessing  board  is 
not  required  to  attempt.  Take  for  illustration, 
property  whose  sole  use  is  for  purposes  of  inter- 
state commerce,  such  as  a  bridge  over  the  Ohio 
between  the  states  of  Kentucky  and  Ohio.  From 
that  springs  its  entire  value.  Can  it  be  that  it  is 
on  that  account  entirely  relieved  from  the  burden 
of  state  taxaton?  Will  it  be  said  that  the  taxa- 
tion must  be  based  simply  on  the  cost,  when  never 
was  it  held  that  the  cost  of  a  thing  is  the  test  of 
its  value?  Suppose  there  be  two  bridges  over  the 
Ohio,  the  cost  of  the  construction  of  each  being 


61 

the  same,  one  between  Cincinnati  and  Newport, 
and  another  twenty  miles  below  and  where  there 
is  nothing  but  a  small  village  on  either  shore. 
The  value  of  the  one  will  manifestly  be  greater 
than  that  of  the  other,  and  that  excess  of  value 
will  spring  solely  from  the  larger  use  of  the  one 
than  of  the  other." 

Chairman  Duncan  :  Has  not  there  been,  Mr.  Latta, 
a  marked  modification  of  that  principle? 

Mr.  Latta:     I  do  not  believe  so,  your  Honor. 

Chairman  Duncan  :  They  began  with  Smith  v.  Ames, 
169,  and  ended  up  with  the  Hughes  Minnesota  case  that 
modifies  that  substantially. 

Mr.  Latta:     I  am  not  contending,  your  Honor — 

Chairman  Duncan  :  Suppose  we  were  valueing  this 
property  to  fix  a  rate? 

Mr.  Latta:  I  am  not  contending  the  use  is  the  only 
basis. 

Chairman  Duncan  :  In  fixing  the  rate,  what  about 
your  franchise? 

Mr.  Latta:  It  would  be  proper  to  consider  the  fran- 
chise. 

Chairman  Duncan:  Not  a  cent  except  whar  was 
paid  for  it. 

Mr.  Latta:  In  this  case,  your  Honor,  the  franchise 
is  paid  for. 

Chairman  Duncan:  What  was  actually  paid  would 
be  the  value  for  rate  making  purposes.  In  determining 
the  wage,  if  important  at  all,  and  it  ought  to  l>e,  would 
it  have  a  different  value  for  the  purpose  of  fixing  a  wage 
than  in  fixing  the  rate? 

Mr.  Latta:  Yes  sir.  If  your  Honor  will  let  me  come 
to  that  later,  I  will  discuss  it.  But  I  think  it  is  perfectly 


62 

apparent  that  for  fixing  a  wage  the  principles  are  entirely 
different  than  those  involved  in  fixing  a  rate. 

Chairman  Duncan:     Don't  let  me  confuse  you. 

Mr.  Latta:  I  had  another  United  States  case  there  I 
wanted  to  read.  I  think,  at  least  as  far  as  my  investiga- 
tion has  led  me  to  determine,  there  is  no  case  where  the 
question  of  values  has  been  discussd  by  any  court  in  con- 
nection with  the  fixing  of  a  wage,  and  we  have  to  argue 
by  analysis,  of  course,  on  this  suibject. 

Chairman  Duncan:  The  value  for  fixing  a  rate,  we 
are  beginning  to  get  reasonably  familiar  with  that  law. 

Mr.  Latta:  I  understand  that  very  well,  and  when 
I  made  the  answer  I  did  to  your  Honor  I  had  in  the  back 
part  of  my  mind  the  remembrance  that  this  is  a  franchise 
that  is  paid  for.  I  may,  perhaps,  have  said  no  to  your 
Honor's  question  when  my  answer  was  too  broad,  but  in 
this  particular  case  I  think  my  answer  is  correct,  that 
the  franchise  in  this  case  must  be  considered  even  in  fix- 
ing a  rate. 

Mr.  Clark  :  There  was  a  stipulated  amount  to  be  paid, 
so  much  annually,  until  the  full  amount  is  paid. 

Mr.  Latta:  There  is  a  rate  discussion — these  cases  I 
have  just  read  are  tax  cases — Fort  Smith  Light  &  Trac- 
tion Company  v.  The  City  of  Fort  Smith,  202  Federal  Re- 
porter 581.  The  part  to  which  I  would  call  attention  I 
will  simply  insert  bodily  in  my  argument  without  reading 
it,  but  it  is  a  general  discussion  of  what  may  be  taken  in- 
to consideration  in  fixing  a  rate,  and  perhaps  no  special 
gjood  would  come  to  the  commission  from  commenting  on 
it  at  length  at  this  time. 

"In  the  case  of  San  Diego  Water  Co.  v.  San 
Diego,  118  Cal.  556,  50  Pac.  633,  38  L.  R.  A.  460, 
62  Am.  St.  Rep.  261,  the  Supreme  Court  of  Cal- 


63 

ifornia  had  occasion  again  to  pass  upon  the  ques- 
tion of  the  duty  of  a  governing  body  of  a  munic- 
ipality in  fixing  water  rates.  Referring  to  the  sec- 
tion of  the  state  constitution  ahove  mentioned,  the 
court  said: 

"  'The  meaning  of  the  section  is  that  the  govern- 
ing body  of  the  municipality  upon  a  fair  investi- 
gation, and  with  the  exercise  of  judgment  and  dis- 
cretion, shall  fix  reasonable  rates  and  allow  just 
compensation.  If  they  attempt  to  act  arbitrarily, 
without  investigation,  or  without  the  exercise  of 
judgment  and  discretion,  or  if  they  fix  rates  so 
palpably  unreasonable  and  unjust  as  to  amount 
to  arbitrary  action,  they  violate  their  duty,  and 
go  beyond  the  powers  conferred  upon  them.' 

"In  the  case  of  Arkadelphia  Electric  Light  Go.  v. 
Arkadelphia,  99  Ark.  178,  137  S.  W.  1093,  it  was 
held  that: 

"  'The  rates  having  been  fixed  by  the  city  council, 
which  is  given  authority  to  investigate  and  de- 
termine reasonable  rates,  the  presumption  is  that 
they  are  reasonable,  and  the  burden  of  proof  is 
upon  the  company  to  show  aflSrmatively  that  they 
are  not.' 

"This  is  not  a  conclusive  presumption,  however, 
The  council  might  so  conduct  its  investigation,  or 
might  ignore  or  disregard  essential  facts  to  such 
an  extent,  as  to  overcome  the  presumption  of  the 
correctness  of  its  decision.  San  Diego  Water  Go. 
V.  San  Diego,  118  Cal.  576,  50  Pac.  633,  38  L.  R. 
A.  460,  62  Am.  St.  Rep.  261.  What  then  must  the 
council  consider? 

"In  the  case  of  Smyth  v.  Ames,  169  U.  S.  546, 
18  Sup.  Ct.  434,  42  L.  Ed.  819,  the  Supreme  Ck)urt 
of  the  United  States  said: 

"We  hold,  however,  that  the  basis  of  all  cal- 
culations as  to  the  reasonableness  of  rates  to  be 
charged  by  a  corporation  maintaining  a  highway 
under  legislative  sanction  must  be  the  fair  value 
of  the  property  being  used  by  it  for  the  conven- 
ience of  the  public.  And,  in  order  to  ascertain 
that  value,  the  original  cost  of  construction,  the 


64 

amount  expended  in  permanent  improvements, 
the  amount  and  market  value  of  its  bonds  and 
stock,  the  present  as  compared  with  the  original 
cost  of  construction,  the  probable  earning  capacity 
of  the  property  under  particular  rates  prescribed 
by  statute,  and  the  sum  required  to  meet  operat- 
ing expenses,  are  all  matters  for  consideration, 
and  are  to  be  given  such  weight  as  may  be  just 
and  right  in  each  case.  We  do  not  say  that  there 
may  not  be  other  matters  to  be  regarded  in  es- 
timating the  value  of  the  property.  What  the 
company  is  entitled  to  ask  is  a  fair  return  upon 
the  value  of  that  which  it  employs  for  the  public 
convenience.  On  the  other  hand,  what  the  public 
is  entitled  to  demand  is  that  no  more  be  exacted 
from  it  for  the  use  of  the  public  highway  than 
the  services  rendered  by  it  are  reasonably  worth.' 

"In  the  case  of  San  Diego  Land  Co.  v.  National 
City,  174  U.  S.  757  19  Sup.  Ct.  811,  43  L.  Ed.  1154, 
the  same  court  said: 

"  'The  contention  of  the  appellant  in  the  present 
case  is  that  in  ascertaining  what  are  just  rates 
the  court  should  take  into  consideration  the  cost 
of  its  plant,  the  cost  per  annum  of  operating  the 
plant  including  interest  paid  on  money  borrowed, 
and  reasonably  necessary  to  be  used  in  construct- 
ing the  same,  the  annual  depreciation  of  the  plant 
from  natural  causes  resulting  from  its  use,  and  a 
fair  profit  to  the  company  over  and  above  such 
charges  for  the  services  in  supplying  the  water 
to  consumers,  either  by  way  of  interest  on  the 
money  it  has  expended  for  the  public  use,  or  upon 
some  other  fair  and  equitable  basis  Undoubtedly 
all  these  matters  ought  to  be  taken  into  consid- 
eration, and  such  weight  be  given  them  when  rates 
are  being  fixed  as  under  all  the  circumstances  will 
be  just  to  the  company  and  the  public.  The  basis 
of  calculation  suggested  by  the  appellant  is,  how- 
ever, defective  in  not  requiring  the  real  value  of 
the  property  and  the  fair  value  in  themselves  of 
the  services  rendered  to  be  taken  into  considera- 
tion.    What  the  company  is  entitled  to  demand, 


65 

in  order  that  it  may  have  just  compensation,  is 
a  fair  return  upon  the  reasonable  valuie  of  the 
property  at  the  time  it  is  being  used  for  the  pub- 
lic. The  property  may  have  cost  more  than  it 
ought  to  have  cost  and  its  outstanding  bonds  for 
money  Iwrrowed  and  which  went  into  the  plant 
may  be  in  excess  of  the  real  value  of  the  property. 
So  that  it  cannot  be  said  that  the  amount  of  such 
bonds  should  in  every  case  control  the  question 
of  rates,  although  it  may  be  an  element  in  the  in- 
quiry as  to  what  is,  all  the  circumstances  consid- 
ered, just  both  to  the  company  and  the  public' 

"In  the  case  of  Willcox  v.  Consolidated  Gas  Co.. 
212  IT.  S.  41  29  Sup.  Ct.  195,  53  L.  Ed.  382,  15 
Ann.  Cas.  1034,  the  court  said: 

"  'There  must  be  a  fair  return  upon  the  reason- 
able value  of  the  property  at  the  time  it  is  being 
used  for  the  public' 

"In  the  case  of  the  Lincoln  Gas  Co.  v.  Lincoln, 
223,  U  S.  357,  32  Sup.  Ct.  272,  56  L.  Ed.  466,  the 
court  said: 

"  'In  this  as  in  every  other  legislative  rate  case, 
there  are  presented  three  questions  of  prime  im- 
portance: First,  the  present  reasonable  value  of 
the  company's  plant  engaged  in  the  regulated  bus- 
iness; second,  what  will  be  the  probable  effect  of 
the  reduced  rate  upon  the  future  net  income  from 
the  property  engaged  in  service  to  the  public ;  and, 
third,  in  ascertaining  the  probable  net  income, 
under  the  reduced  rates  prescribed,  what  deduc- 
tion, if  any,  should  be  made  from  the  gross  re- 
ceipts as  a  fund  to  preserve  the  property  from 
future  depreciation?" 

"In  the  case  of  Brymer  v.  Butler  Water  Co.  179 
Pa.  231,  250,  36  iVtl.  249-251  (36  L.  R.  A.  260), 
the  Supreme  Court  of  Pennsylvania  said: 

"  'Ordinarily,  that  is  a  reasonable  charge  or  sys- 
tem of  charges  which  yields  a  fair  return  upon  the 
investment  Fixed  charges  and  the  costs  of  main- 
tenance and  operation  must  first  be  provided  for. 
Then  the  interests  of  the  owners  of  the  property 
are  to  be  considered.     They  are  entitled  to  a  rate 


66 

of  return,  if  their  property  will  earn  it,  not  less 
than  the  legal  rate  of  interest;  and  a  system  of 
charges  that  yields  no  more  income  than  is  fairly 
required  to  maintain  the  plant,  pay  fixed  charges 
and  operating  expenses,  provide  a  suitable  fund 
for  the  payment  of  debts,  and  pay  a  fair  profit 
to  the  owners  of  the  property,  cannot  be  unrea- 
sonable.' 

"In  the  case  of  the  Kennehec  Water  District  v. 
Waterville,  97  Me.  185,  204,  54  Atl.  6,  14  (60  L. 
R.  A.  856 ) ,  the  Supreme  Court  of  Maine  said : 

"  'The  elemental  principles  thus  far  noted  may 
be  summarized  as,  on  the  one  hand,  the  right  of 
the  company  to  derive  fair  income,  based  upon 
the  fair  value  of  the  property  at  the  time  it  is 
being  used  for  the  public,  taking  into  account  the 
cost  of  maintenance  or  depreciation,  and  current 
operating  expenses;  and,  on  the  other  hand,  the 
right  of  the  public  to  have  no  more  exacted  than 
the  services  in  themselves  are  worth.'  " 

Before  I  finish  my  discussion  of  the  finance  question 
and  proceed  to  answer  your  Honor's  question  of  a  mo- 
ment ago,  I  want  to  call  your  attention  to  the  value  of 
this  property  as  sho^Ti  by  its  earnings  and  expenses,  and 
its  operating  cost.  These  motormen  and  conductors  are 
interested  in  the  operating  cost  if  they  are  interested 
at  all,  but  not  in  connection  with  the  total  sum  of  money 
that  is  produced.  I  will  introduce  into  my  argument  as  a 
whole  the  comparative  statement  of  earnings  and  expenses 
for  the  years  of  1911  and  1912,  which  is  on  the  desk  of 
each  one  of  the  members  of  the  commission.  It  shows, 
of  course,  this  company  had  revenues  from  a  number  of 
different  sources;  car  operations,  the  rental  of  buildings, 
the  rental  of  its  offices  in  the  Traction  and  Terminal 
Building,  the  rental  of  its  train  shed,  and  from  various 
interurban  companies  that  operate  over  the  tracks  of  the 
terminal  company  into  the  train   shed,   both   passenger 


67 

and  freight,  and  from  advertising  privileges  and  hauling 
newspapers. 

Mr.  Clark:  Dog  permits? 

Mr.  Latta:  Dog  permits,  and  from  a  great  number 
of  other  sources;  some  large  amounts  and  some  small. 

Now,  I  wish  to  call  your  attention  to  the  fact  that  the 
expenditure  of  the  company  for  its  maintenance  of  way 
and  structures,  and  for  the  maintenance  of  its  equipment, 
is  very  liberal;  that  it  is  the  policy  of  this  company,  as 
shown  by  its  expenditures  in  that  particular,  to  keep  its 
property  well  in  hand.  In  1913,  |366,240.00  were  spent 
for  maintenance  of  way  and  structures  alone. 

Mr  Clark  :  I  would  like  to  inquire  the  nature  of  that 
expenditure,  whether  any  of  it  was  for  entirely  new 
work? 

Mr.  Latta:  It  is  itemized  on  the  next  sheet,  your 
Honor.  It  shows  the  amounts  for  track  and  bridges,  and 
the  amounts  for  street  paving  and  maintenance  of  over- 
head structure,  maintenance  of  buildings  and  fixtures  and 
maintenance  of  the  Terminal  Building.  All  the  items 
are  in  the  first  section  of  the  second  subdivision  of  this 
statement. 

Now,  Conducting  Transportation ;  the  total  cost  of  con- 
ducting transportation  in  1912  was  |633,000,  and  more. 
It  is  shown  elsewhere  that  the  wages  of  conductors  and 
motormen  amounted  to  $510,000  approximately.  Of 
course,  there  are  other  items  connected  with  conducting 
transportation  in  addition  to  the  wages  of  the  motormen 
and  conductors. 

The  cost  of  administration  is  very  light.  There  is  a 
sinking  fund  provided,  which  is,  of  course,  justifiable  even 
for  rate-making  purposes,  and  the  interest  on  bonds  and 
other  such  items  are  a  fixed  amount.  We  showed  that  upon 


68 

the  stock  there  was  declared  a  dividend  of  $200,00Q,  which 
is  four  per  cent  on  the  |5,000,000  stock  of  this  company, 
but  the  total  receipts  of  the  company  for  the  same  year 
fell  short  of  enough  to  declare  that  dividend  by  |60,703.98, 
creating  a  deficit  of  that  amount  in  the  actual  accounts 
for  that  year. 


69 


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72 

Now  it  can  certainly  not  be  said  that  there  is  anything, 
as  far  as  this  proceeding  is  concerned,  which  is  subject 
to  criticism  in  the  financial  operations  of  the  company, 
and  I  especially  want  to  call  your  Honors'  attention  to 
the  two  charts  which  we  have  had  prepared  here  to  show 
that  the  prosperity  of  this  company  is  from  its  invest- 
ment and  not  from  its  actual  operation  of  cars. 

The  first  chart,  the  one  with  the  shaded  portion,  shows 
that  the  actual  operation  of  this  company  produced 
.0424  for  each  passenger  carried.  That  is  what  flows  into 
the  treasury  of  the  company  from  the  conductors  of  the 
company  by  the  collection  of  fares.  There  is  a  graphical 
illustration  upon  this  chart  showing  the  amount  of  fran- 
chise compensation  by  the  reduction  of  the  fare  from  five 
cents.  That  chart  shows  that  if  this  company  had  had 
no  source  of  revenue  except  from  the  passengers  carried 
by  it  it  would  have  had  a  very  considerable  deficit. 

Chairman  Duncan:  That  don't  mean  that  to  me.  If 
your  statement  is  true,  that  this  property  down  here  is 
valued  as  it  is,  there  is  very  little  of  it  that  is  used  and 
useful  for  the  convenience  of  the  public  in  the  conduct 
of  your  transportation  business.  On  your  own  statement 
you  would  have  nothing  like  the  money  that  you  claim  is 
in  it  It  is  not  in  there  for  transportation  purposes.  You 
get  hundreds  of  thousands  of  dollars  office  rent  and  things 
of  that  kind.  That  property  is  not  used  for  the  public 
at  all.    That  is  a  private  investment. 

Mr.  Latta  :  Your  Honor,  we  are  dealing  with  the  rate 
of  pay  of  motormen  and  conductors.  They  have  no  in- 
terest in  the  revenues  that  flow  to  the  company  from  the 
rental  of  that  property.  Their  labor  does  not  help  pro- 
duce that  revenue. 

We  are  talking  about  a  proper  wage  from  the  revenues 


73 

of  this  company.  The  motormen  and  conductors  by  their 
labor  do  not  produce  any  part  of  the  revenue  that  comes 
from  the  Traction  and  Terminal  Station,  or  from  the 
property  that  adjoins  the  terminal  station  and  is  used 
in  the  business  of  this  company.  My  point  is  this,  and 
I  think  it  is  well  taken;  my  point  is,  the  motormen  and 
conductors  can  base  their  claim  to  an  increase  in  wage 
upon  the  prosperity  of  this  company  only  from  its  oper- 
ating receipts.  They  are  not  entitled  to  dip  into  the 
revenues  of  this  company  from  its  investment  in  real  es- 
tate. They  are  not  entitled  to  have  anything  paid  to  them 
from  the  revenues  produced  by  rentals  in  the  Traction 
and  Terminal  Building  or  from  revenues  produced  by  the 
operation  of  interurban  cars  into  the  passenger  terminal. 
We  must  look  to  the  question  of  whether  the  company  has 
greatly  prospered  as  a  result  of  the  labor  of  these  motor- 
men  and  conductors — if  that  is  a  proper  subject  of  in- 
quiry at  all — to  determine  whether  or  not  they  are  being 
adequately  paid.  This  chart  shows,  and  I  think  it  is 
good  argument,  and  I  think  it  is  conclusive  argument, 
your  Honors,  that  if  this  company  had  had  no  revenue 
except  from  the  labor  of  these  motormen  and  conductors 
and  the  men  who  are  associated  with  them  in  the  car 
operation — I  consider  power  houses  and  everything  that 
goes  to  the  operation  as  a  proper  element  to  be  taken  into 
consideration,  but  I  mean  revenue  from  the;  operation  of 
cars,  revenue  from  passengers  carried — the  company 
would  not  have  prospered.  It  would  now  be  in  a  period 
of  depression.  It  could  not  pay  anything  to  its  stock- 
holders. It  could  not  even  keep  up  its  maintenance  on 
the  present  basis,  and  pay  its  fixed  charges  also.  It  would 
have  a  deficit,  a  large  deficit,  because  from  passengers 
alone  the  revenues  of  this  company  are  not  sufficient,  your 


74 

Honors,  to  keep  up  the  maintenance  charges,  keep  up  the 
fixed  charges  and  pay  anything  at  all  to  the  stockholders. 
On  the  contrary,  a  tremendous  deficit  is  the  result. 


76 


Chart  showing  actual  revenues  per  passenger  and  actual 
operation  costs  and  deficit  which  would  result  If  company 
had  no  other  revenue : 


Basis  Year  1912. 

Maintenance  way  and  structures 004372c 

Maintenance  of  equipment 003184c 

Power   005471c 

Conducting  transportation 009281c 

Injuries  and  damages  and  insurance 001708c 

Administration  expenses 002517c 

Taxes    003029c 

Fixed  charges  013548c 

Sinking  funds  001322c 

Total   044432c 

Less  deficit 001950c 

Average  per  passenger 042482c 

The  computation  from  which  chart  is  made  does  not 
include  the  Terminal  Building  and  stations,  or  the  revenue 
derived  therefrom,  or  cost  of  maintenance  thereof,  or  fixed 
charges  thereon,  but  is  based  solely  upon  car  earnings. 

The  apparent  deficit  shown  is  in  fact  overcome  by  the 
earnings  from  interurban  cars  and  the  earnings  of  the 
Passenger  Station  and  Buildings,  car  adverftising"  and 
rentals  on  real  estate  adjoining  Terminal  Building,  dis- 
mantled barns,  etc. 


76 

Now,  the  second  chart  shows  that  to  the  extent  this 
company  has  prospered,  to  the  extent  that  its  stock- 
holders were  able  last  year  to  have  a  dividend  declared 
to  them  amounting  to  |200,000,  the  necessary  revenues 
were  produced  from  additional  sources  in  which  these 
motormen  and  conductors  have  no  right  to  share.  The 
actual  result  which  has  enabled  the  company  to  pay 
anything  at  all  to  Its  stockholders  and  maintain  any  kind 
of  a  sinking  fund  to  keep  up  this  property,  has  come  from 
the  fact  that  it  operates  all  this  additional  property; 
producing  revenues  in  addition  to  those  from  car  opera- 
tion. These  additional  revenues  account  for  its  prosper- 
ity. 


77 

Actual  distribution  of  total  earnings,  adding  to  actual 
revenue  from  each  passenger  an  arbitrary  proportion  of 
earnings  from  other  sources. 


Basis  Year  1912. 


Maintenance  of  way  and  structures 004372c 

Maintenance  of  equipment 003184c 

Power 005471c 

Conducting  transportation 009281c 

Injuries,  damages  and  insurance 001708c 

Administration  expenses 002517c 

Taxes 003029c 

Fixed  charges 013548c 

Sinking  funds 001322c 

Balance  for  construction,  dividends,  etc 001813c 

Total   046245c 


78 

Now  1  think  that  is  all  I  wish  to  say  on  the  subject 
of  capitalization. 

Chairman  Duncan:  Suppose  your  cars  were  not 
running. 

Mr.  Latta:  If  the  city  cars  were  not  running,  it 
would  not  make  a  particle  of  difference  to  the  rental  prop- 
erty proper,  of  the  Traction  Terminal  Building.  Of 
course,  if  the  interurban  cars  stopped  running,  it  would 
make  a  difference.  In  that  connection,  before  I  pass  to 
a  direct  answer  to  your  Honor's  question,  there  are  just 
two  or  three  things  I  want  to  comment  on. 

It  has  been  stated  here  by  the  counsel  for  this  Com- 
mittee that  fifty  per  cent,  of  all  the  wage  earners  in  the 
United  States  earn  less  than  $500  a  year.  That  state- 
ment is  taken,  he  said,  from  the  Census  Reports.  If  that 
statement  be  true,  and  I  have  no  reason  to  doubt  it,  it 
should  be  remembered  that  no  man  in  the  Car  Service 
Department  of  this  Company  needs  to  work  for  |500  a 
year;  that  the  rate  is  there,  and  the  work  is  there  to  pro- 
duce for  him  a  very  considerable  sum  more  than  that  at 
and  from  the  very  beginning  of  his  employment.  Also 
these  wages  are  so  arranged  that  after  a  man  has  been 
with  this  Company  for  five  years  and  more  he  may  earn 
|1000  a  year,  twice  as  much  as  the  average  wage-earner 
in  the  United  States,  according  to  the  figures  given  by 
these  gentlemen. 

I  want  to  call  your  Honor's  attention  also  to  the  fact 
that  during  the  course  of  this  evidence,  and  in  a  running 
comment  between  Mr.  Murphy  and  Judge  Roby,  Judge 
Roby  admitted  that  the  true  test  of  the  initial  wage  is  the 
market  value  of  the  labor  in  the  open  competitive  market. 
I  conceive  that  to  be  the  only  test  for  the  initial  wage,  but  1 
think  there  is  a  very  different  test,  your  Honors,  for  the 


79 

maximum  wage.  In  my  Judgment,  after  a  man  has  been 
with  this  company  for  several  years  and  has  progressed 
through  various  stages  of  employment,  he  is  entitled  to 
a  greater  wage.  I  do  not  agree  with  Judge  Roby  that  his 
compensation  for  his  experience,  and  because  of  his 
standing  and  ability  as  he  goes  on  with  this  Company, 
should  be  confined  to  some  marks  on  his  sleeve.  I  think 
after  a  man  has  been  in  the  employ  of  this  Company  for  a 
number  of  years,  the  test  should  be  whether  or  not  the 
wage  is  commensurate  with  the  value  of  the  service  he 
renders. 

Under  present  conditions  in  a  large  property  like  this, 
that  test  cannot  be  accurately  and  absolutely  followed, 
because  all  tendency  nowadays,  especially  through  the  in- 
fluence of  unions,  is  to  level  the  men.  So  you  can  say, 
"John  Jones,  I  think  you  are  a  better  man  than  Tom 
Smith  and  I  will  pay  you  a  cent  more  an  hour,"  although 
both  men  may  have  been  with  the  Company  the  same 
length  of  time.  You  cannot  do  that  now.  You  have  to 
strike  an  average.  You  must  level  by  some  different 
standard  than  the  one  suggested  by  Judge  Roby,  but  you 
must  have  some  kind  of  a  level  as  a  practical  basis.  The 
ideal  situation  is  to  pay  every  man  the  actual  value  of 
his  labor.  That  is  what  you  ought  to  do.  But  in  practi- 
cal operation  you  have  to  get  at  it  by  some  kind  of  a 
leveling  process  as  nearly  equitable  as  possible.  That  is 
why  we  have  the  sliding  scale. 

As  to  the  men  who  are  in  the  upper  stages  of  this  com- 
pany's service,  I  undertake  to  say  the  evidence  in  this 
case  is  overwhelmingly  to  the  point  that  they  are  receiving 
a  wage  commensurate  with  the  value  of  their  services. 
I  based  that  on  the  proposition  that  they  have  been  sat- 
isfied with  it.    These  gentleman,  as  the  attorneys  for  this 


80 

committee,  produced  a  few  men,  two  or  three,  and  not- 
ably the  three  members  of  this  committee,  and  perhaps 
two  or  three  others,  who  have  been  with  this  company 
for  a  number  of  years,  and  who  are  receiving  the  maxi- 
mum rate.  Not  one  of  those  men  complained  of  the 
amount  of  his  wage,  not  one.  ^Ir,  Brown,  Mr.  White  and 
Mr.  Belch  did  not  complain  of  the  amount  of  their  wage, 
neither  of  them.  And  forty-two  of  the  old  men,  of  the 
old  and  tried  and  seasoned  employees  of  this  company, 
came  into  this  court  and  told  your  Honors  that  the  wage 
is  satisfactory  and  that  it  is  not  only  satisfacory  to  them 
individually,  but  that  it  has  been  satisfactory  to  the  great 
majority  of  these  men,  who  before  this  disturbance  were 
going  about  their  work  in  the  ordinary  way,  cheerful  and 
without  complaint.  So  we  have  a  wage  here  in  its  initial 
stage  which  comports  with  the  market  rate  in  this  city, 
and  we  have  a  maximum  operating  wage  that  is  shown 
by  the  overwhelming  evidence  to  be  satisfactory. 

Now,  for  the  direct  answer  to  your  Honor's  question. 
It  is  business  of  the  state,  and  it  is  the  business  of  the 
Public  Service  Commission  as  an  arm  of  the  state  gov- 
ernment in  dealing  with  public  service  corporations,  to 
represent  the  rate  payer.  In  case  of  an  institution  like 
this,  where  the  rate  is  fixed,  then  it  is  the  business  of  the 
Public  Srvice  Commission  to  see  that  the  rate  payer  gets 
the  maximum  of  service  for  the  rate  that  is  fixed  by  law\ 
WTiere  the  rate  is  not  fixed,  it  is  the  business  of  the  state, 
and  it  is  the  business  of  the  Public  Service  Commission 
as  an  arm  of  the  state  to  see  that  that  institution  is 
economically  conducted,  so  the  rate  may  be  reduced  for 
the  benefit  of  the  rate  payer — the  public — and  I  assert  as 
a  proposition  which  I  do  not  believe  can  be  successfully 
contradicted,  that  a  public    service   corporation    has    no 


81 

more  right  to  pay  an  excessive  price  for  its  labor  thau 
it  has  a  right  to  pay  an  excessive  price  for  iron,  or  steel, 
or  hricks,  or  for  thig  salaries  of  its  oflftcers,  or  for  any 
other  purpose.  Your  Honors  would  not  let  this  company 
squander  its  money  in  paying  high  salaries  to  its  officers. 
It  has  no  right  to  do  so;  it  must  run  its  business  econoiii 
ically ;  so  the  rate  payers — the  public — may  get  the  grfii r- 
est  amount  of  service  for  the  rate  that  is  paid. 

Chairman  Duncn:  Under  no  condition  would  we 
have  jurisdiction  over  the  salaries. 

Mr.  Latta:  You  have  jurisdiction  to  make  this  com- 
pany conduct  its  business  economically.  You  would  not 
say  perhaps,  it  should  pay  so  much  to  one  particular 
man. 

Chairman  Duncan  :  We  would  say  that  so  much  would 
be  a  reasonable  salary,  and  if  the  stockholders  wanted  to 
pay  more,  they  could  cut  down  the  dividends. 

Mr.  Latta  :  The  general  proposition  is  the  one  that  I 
am  advocating.  That  was  an  illustration  merely.  The 
public  service  corporation  must  pay  for  what  it  gets  no 
more  than  the  market  rate;  no  more  than  is  necessary  to 
expend  for  what  it  gets  in  order  that  the  public  itself  may 
be  benefited  from  the  successful,  economical,  and  proper 
operation  of  the  property,  and  get  the  greatest  possible 
amount  of  service,  and  get  it  as  economically  as  possible. 

Now  if  it  be  shown  in  this  case,  or  in  any  other  case, 
that  the  corporation  is  paying  a  sufficient  amount  for  its 
labor  to  attract  a  sufficient  quantity  of  labor  and  a  sat- 
isfacory  quality — that  is  just  as  important  as  quantity, 
a  satisfactory  quality — and  that  corpoartion  is  engaged 
in  public  service,  I  say  that  corporation  has  no  right  to 
pay  fancy  wages  and  has  no  right  to  pay  more  than  the 
market  value  or  that  which  is  necessary  to  procure  the 


82 

labor  it  should  have.  Nobody  will  claim  here  we  have  not 
a  sufficient  quantity  of  labor.  Men  are  flocking  to  this 
company;  ten  times  as  many  as  we  can  employ.  Nobody 
will  assert  we  have  not  the  proper  quality  of  labor.  We 
have  men  with  this  company  that  any  of  us  would  be 
proud  to  be  associated  with;  men  in  the  car  service  de- 
partment operating  cars  here  who  are  a  credit  to  the  cit- 
izenship of  this  state  and  this  city.  If  then  this  commis- 
sion comes  to  the  conclusion  that  this  company  is  paying 
a  sufficient  wage  to  attract  to  it  a  proper  quantiy  of  labor, 
and  a  proper  quality  of  labor,  I  undertake  to  say  it  is 
against  public  policy  for  these  wages  to  be  raised;  be- 
cause the  public  has  an  interest  which  is  distinctly  dif- 
ferrent  from  that  of  any  man  who  gets  money  from  the 
company  as  a  wage  earner,  or  in  any  other  capacity.  The 
public  has  a  right  to  see  that  the  company  manages  its 
business  economically  so  that  it  may  get  as  much  ser- 
vice as  possible,  and  it  has  a  further  right  to  see  that  the 
property  is  properly  conducted  so  that  when  the  fran- 
chise runs  out  and  the  question  of  rates  comes  up  the 
rates  may  be  reduced  if  possible  for  the  benefit  of  the  pub 
lie  at  large.    Does  that  answer  your  Honor's  question? 

Chairman  Duncan  :    It  gives  your  views  of  it. 

Mr.  Latta:  Before  I  leave  the  rate  question  entirely, 
Mr.  Chairman,  I  wish  to  add,  without  A^ery  much  com- 
ment, that  we  do  not  concede  that  there  are  any  persons 
interested  in  this  arbitration  except  the  car  service  men. 
The  contract  of  November  7th  specifies  that  the  men  who 
went  out  on  strike  on  October  31st,  are  the  persons  with 
whom  the  negotiation  was  had.  That  contract  was  signed 
by  a  committee  of  car  service  men  alone.  Afterwards 
there  was  an  attempt  to  bring  in  the  other  departments. 
As  far  as  the  other  departments  are  concerned,  the  evi- 


83 

dence  shows  here,  and  I  think  pretty  conclusively,  that 
we  are  paying  as  much  as  other  people  are  paying  for 
like  service,  and  we  are  paying  sufficient  wages  to  attract 
the  proper  kind  of  men,  and  no  especial  hardship  exists 
in  working  for  this  company  either  in  its  carpenter  shop, 
repair  shop,  or  in  its  power  house. 

I  will  not  go  into  detail  about  the  wages  in  that  con- 
nection. We  pay  our  engineer  a  little  more  than  other 
companies  pay.  We  have  the  same  number  of  hours 
other  companies  have,  and  in  the  shop  we  pay  for  over- 
time. I  have  not  had  called  to  my  attention  any  special 
hardship  upon  any  employee  in  the  power  house  or  shops, 
which  calls  for  any. special  comment  in  this  argument. 

As  to  conditions;  I  will  not  go  through  the  conditions 
that  are  called  in  question  here  in  their  order,  because 
my  time  is  getting  short.  They  may  be  chiefly  divided 
into  questions  concerning  hours  and  questions  concern- 
ing runs,  which  also  involve  hours. 

There  has  been  a  complete  breakdown  upon  the  part 
of  this  committee  in  its  effort  to  show  that  it  is  practical 
to  arrange  these  runs  differently  or  other  than  as  they 
are  now  arranged.  They  are  the  result  of  twenty  years' 
growth  in  this  city.  They  are  designed  to  meet  the  par- 
ticularly conditions  which  exist  on  each  line,  and  it  is 
admitted  by  the  witnesses  for  the  committee  that  it  is 
necessary  to  conform  the  runs  on  each  line  to  condi- 
tions on  that  line.  Mr.  Thorpe  made  an  offer  to  show  he 
could  devise  runs,  and  I  cross  examined  on  this  only  to 
a  limited  extent  because  his  cross  examination  was 
stopped  when  the  attorney  for  the  committee  announced 
that  he  would  produce  an  expert  to  make  these  runs ;  but 
I  cross  examined  him  just  far  enough  to  show  that  he  did 
not  understand  the  conditions,  and  that  is  all  I  had  in 


84 

mind  to  show.  The  schedule  which  he  produced  was  for 
some  line  which  he  claimed  would  take  three  hours  to 
make  a  round  trip.  He  had  the  last  car  out  leaving  the 
barn  in  the  morning  at  6:10,  and  an  interval  between 
the  starting  of  that  car  and  the  return  of  the  first  car 
of  two  hours,  lacking  three  minutes,  during  which  time 
there  would  be  no  car  at  all.  Not  only  that,  but  he  had 
the  car  which  left  the  barn  at  6:22  in  the  morning  re- 
lieved at  11:21,  and  taken  up  by  the  succeeding  crew  at 
12:21.  Now,  if  that  line  is  of  sufficient  length  to  take 
three  hours  to  make  a  round  trip,  that  car  would  be  at 
the  time  it  is  relieved,  according  to  his  schedule,  one- 
third  of  the  way  back  from  the  end  of  the  line.  It  would 
not  be  at  the  terminus,  or  at  the  further  terminus  but 
would  be  one-third  of  the  way  back  from  the  further 
terminus  at  the  time  it  would  be  relieved — 11:21 — and 
there  would  be  no  crew  to  take  it  until  12:21.  In  other 
words,  it  would  be  standing  there  blocking  the  line  with 
nobody  to  run  it. 

Mr.  Payne:  There  is  no  run  of  three  hours,  is  there, 
in  this  city? 

Mr.  Latta:  No. 

Mr.  Payne  :  None  of  an  hour,  is  there? 

Mr.  Latta  :  There  are  some  runs  of  an  hour.  I  simply 
use  this  as  an  illustration  to  show  that  it  will  not  do 
for  a  man  who  is  unfamiliar  with  these  lines  to  come  in 
here  and  say,  "This  is  not  practicable,  you  could  have 
75  per  cent,  of  these  runs  earlies  and  lates."  He  is  with- 
out knowledge  of  the  conditions.  I  simply  call  your 
Honors'  attention  to  the  fact  that  our  evidence  is  virtually 
unchallenged. 

Chairman  Duncan:  The  more  earlies  and  lates  you 
have  the  better  it  is  for  the  company? 


85 

Mr.  Latta:  The  more  earlies  and  lates  you  can  have, 
and  carry  on  schedule,  the  better  it  is  for  the  company. 
It  is  to  the  interest  of  the  company.  But  when  you  take 
a  line  that  is  multiplied  three  times  over  at  the  rush  hours, 
as  is  necessary  on  some  lines  in  this  city,  it  is  perfectly 
evident  to  a  man  at  first  glance  you  cannot  have  seventy- 
five  per  cent  of  those  runs  earlies  and  lates.  I  have  also 
introduced  in  evidence  the  ordinances  of  the  city  to  show 
that  schedules  have  to  be  approved  by  the  Board  of  Public 
Works. 

Chairman  Duncan:  Your  time  is  pretty  well  up. 
There  are  two  or  three  things  I  would  like  to  hear  you 
talk  about.  One  of  the  conditions  that  appeals  to  me  to 
be  a  hardship  is  this  continual  reporting  of  the  extra  men. 
What  is  your  view  in  the  way  of  relief  on  that? 

Mr.  Latta:  My  view  is  there  is  some  hardship  con- 
nected with  it.  That  it  is  a  hardship  which  can  be  ut- 
terly eliminated,  I  doubt.  I  think  it  should  rest  to  some 
extent  in  the  discretion  of  the  barn  foremen  as  it  now 
does,  to  let  the  man  who  works  late  the  night  before  re- 
port late  the  next  day,  and  not  require  him  to  show  up 
early  in  the  morning  That  is  done  to  some  extent,  and 
I  do  not  see  any  reason  why  it  should  not  be  largely  done. 
Other  men  can  surely  be  gotten  for  that  early  showup, 
but  as  to  making  a  hard  and  fast  rule  about  reporting, 
under  present  conditions  I  fail  to  see  how  it  can  be  done. 
We  must  get  the  cars  out,  and  it  is  in  evidence  here  it  is 
most  difficult  to  get  these  men  to  report.  Sometimes  a 
man  will  telephone  in  at  the  very  last  minute  he  cannot 
come  on  account  of  sickness  of  himself  or  some  of  his 
family.  He  is  unable  to  report,  and  it  is  necessary  to 
have  a  stock  of  extra  men  on  hand. 

Chairman  Duncan  :    My  idea  would  be  in  the  absence 


86 

of  sickness,  failure  of  a  regular  man  to  report  ought  to 
be  a  breach  of  discipline  subject  to  punishment  of  some 
sort. 

Mr.  Latta:  These  gentlemen  complain  we  put  them  on 
the  bench,  and  that  it  is  a  hardship  to  put  them  on  the 
bench  more  than  one  day. 

Chairman  Duncan:  If  you  have  that  kind  of  a  rule 
that  these  men  must  report  or  have  a  good  excuse  for 
not  reporting — of  course,  no  man  should  be  punished  if 
he  cannot  report  on  account  of  sickness. 

Mr.  Latta:  Yes^  or  illness  in  his  family.  My  judg- 
ment about  that  is  there  should  be  a  certain  amount  of 
dsicretion  used  by  the  barn  foremen.  I  do  not  think  it 
is  possible  to  make  a  hard  and  fast  rule. 

Chairman  Duncan  :  What  is  the  objection,  if  any,  to 
a  minimum  wage  for  these  extra  men  who  are  required 
to  report  and  don't  get  work? 

Mr.  Latta  :  I  do  not  think  there  should  be  a  minimum 
on  the  day.  The  Cincinnati  Board  of  Arbitration  fixed 
it  by  the  month;  that  there  should  be  a  minimum  wage 
of  145.00  a  month ;  that  they  should  make  at  least  |45.00 
a  month.  These  men  make  more  than  |45.00  a  month,  if 
they  report  for  work. 

Chairman  Duncan  :  If  he  reports  three  or  four  times 
a  day  and  don't  get  a  run,  he  would  feel  ugly  about  it.  I 
know  I  would.  If  they  know  they  are  going  to  get  some 
money  for  it,  that  is  different. 

Mr.  Latta:  I  speak  for  myself  alone  when  I  say  it 
appeals  to  my  sense  of  justice  that  there  should  be  a 
minimum  for  the  month,  a  guarantee  of  some  kind  for 
the  month.  I  do  not  think  it  should  be  for  the  day,  be- 
cause that  is  too  narrow  a  margin.  I  want  to  say  that 
I  do  not  especially  desire  to  bind  the  company  by  this 


87 

statement.  I  want  to  speak  for  myself  alone  when  I  say 
it  appeals  to  my  sense  of  justice  there  should  be  for  the 
month  some  kind  of  a  minimum  guarantee  for  the  man 
who  faithfully  shows  up  every  day  and  follows  the  rule 
in  that  respect. 

Chairman  Duncan:  That  is  one  condition  you  think 
ought  to  be  corrected? 

Mr.  Latta:  I  do  not  think  it  is  really  a  hardship, 
because  these  men  earn  as  much  as  they  can  ask  for  a 
guarantee,  but  I  do  not  think  it  is  inequitable  to  say 
there  should  be  some  kind  of  a  guarantee. 

Is  there  any  other  question  you  want  answered? 

Mr.  McClurb:  I  was  going  to  ask  you  this,  whether 
or  not,  mth  reference  to  the  hours,  whether  or  not  the 
rule  fixed,  what  is  known  as  the  "Human  Endurance" 
law,  would  not  be  a  reasonable  rule  to  adopt;  that  is  to 
say,  no  person  shall  be  required  to  be  on  duty  more  than 
sixteen  hours  without  eight  hours  off  for  rest? 

Mr.  Latta:  Your  Honor,  that  situation  upon  its  face 
in  this  particular  case  looks  much  worse  than  it,  in  fact, 
is.  A  man  comes  before  you  and  says,  "I  have  to  work 
eighteen  hours  to  get  ten  hours  pay."  When  we  come  to 
investigate,  we  find  it  is  not  that  way;  that  that  man 
has  been  home  asleep  a  good  part  of  that  time. 

Mr.  McCllre:  That  may  be  true,  and  is  true  no  doubt, 
in  some  of  these  instances,  but  in  some  I  notice  there  is 
as  much  as  three  hours  or  two  hours  and  a  half,  or  four 
hours.  That  time,  unless  a  man  is  favorably  located  with 
reference  to  his  employment,  cannot  be  taken  for  rest, 
for  such  rest  as  the  human  system  needs  and  requires. 

Mr.  Latta:  Those  cases,  your  Honor,  you  will  find 
upon  further  examination,  are  such  that  their  runs  are 
completed  at  the  outside  in  fourteen  hours.     We  have 


88 

some  runs  that  go  over  eighteen  hours,  spread  time,  if 
you  count  the  large  intervening  time.  But  we  do  not 
have  a  case  where  the  break  is  two  or  three  hours  in 
which  the  run  is  not  completed  within  fourteen  hours. 
I  think  I  am  safe  in  saying  they  are  all  completed  in 
fourteen  hours  where  the  break  is  only  tv\^o  or  three 
hours. 

Mr.  Payne:  There  are  several  instances  here  where 
continuous  hours  of  labor  have  gone  as  high  as  eighteen, 
and  I  think  one  twenty-four. 

Mr.  Latta:  Yes.  I  haven't  the  explanation  of  those 
particular  cases.  It  has  been  shown  here  that  men  some- 
times in  emergencies  have  to  work  long  hours. 

Chairman  Duncan:  That  don't  appeal  to  me  as  a 
very  substantial  reason,  because  I  take  it  in  my  business, 
reared  on  a  farm,  there  came  times  when  we  would  have 
to  work  nearly  all  day  and  night,  and  in  the  law  busi- 
ness your  experience  has  been  and  so  has  mine,  that  some- 
times you  have  to  put  out  the  best  that  is  in  you.  You 
cannot  avoid  that.  Here  is  a  condition  I  would  like  to 
hear  you  on. 

Me.  McClure:  A  farm  does  not  bear  a  true  analogy 
to  this  situation.  I  know  something  about  the  farm  my- 
self— I  am  not  particularly  bragging  about  it — but  here 
it  is  day  in  and  day  out,  week  in  and  week  out  all  the  year 
around.  I  am  speaking  about  sixteen  hours  or  something 
like  that,  where  it  is  necessary  to  give  attention  in  order 
to  get  in  the  time  they  do  actually  serve? 

Chairman  Duncan:  The  other  point  I  would  like  to 
hear  you  on  is  this:  What  way  have  you  to  suggest  by 
which  these  men  may  be  entitled  upon  request,  at  least, 
to  have  an  off  day.     I  do  not  believe  any  man  ought  to 


89 

be  required  to  work  31  days  in  February,  April  and  June 
to  make  a  living. 

Mr.  Latta:     I  don't,  either. 

Chairman  Duncan:  What  is  your  suggestion?  That 
is  one  of  the  things  I  have  made  up  my  mind  on  there 
ought  to  be  some  provision  by  which  McCarty  and  these 
other  men  may  have  a  rest  day. 

Mr.  Latta:  The  evidence  is,  of  course,  they  have  a 
right  to  ask  off  when  they  want  off. 

Chairman  Duncan:  There  ought  to  be  some  provi- 
sion, if  you  can  work  it  out — I  don't  care  who  works  it  out. 

Mr.  Payne:  A  plan  so  each  man  could  get  off  every 
other  Sunday. 

Mr.  Latta  :  I  have  no  doubt  that  could  be  arranged.  I 
think  Sunday  is  the  hardest  day  in  the  whole  year  to  ar- 
range for  a  man  who  wants  off,  especially  in  the  summer. 

Chairman  Duncan:  I  am  a  great  believer  in  a  man 
having  an  opportunity  to  go  to  church  once  in  a  while,  al- 
though I  don't  work  at  it  very  much.  I  believe  it  could  be 
arranged  that  these  men  could  have  at  least  one  Sunday  in 
a  month  and  one  other  rest  day. 

Mr.  Latta:    I  have  no  doubt  of  that. 

Chairman  Duncan  :  I  wish  you  would  draft  something 
on  that  order  in  the  platform  that  would  cover  that  con- 
dition, so  if  they  requested  it,  there  should  be  no  question 
about  the  right. 

Mr.  Latta:  I  think  a  man  should  make  a  request  of 
that  kind  two  days  in  advance,  so  a  man  could  be  pro- 
vided to  take  his  place  but  if  a  man  does  not  request  it 
two  days  in  advance,  it  could  be  assumed  by  the  company 
he  intended  to  work — something  of  that  sort. 

The  only  other  thing  in  that  connection  I  want  to  call 


90 

your  attention  to  is  the  testimony  of  Mr.  MeCarty  him- 
self as  to  the  strenuousness  of  this  work. 

If  a  man  did  not  stop  to  consider  the  character  of  the 
work,  he  might  think  ten  or  eleven  hours,  or  in  some  cases 
twelve  hours  work  of  this  kind  is  too  much.  I  would  not 
want  to  pitch  hay  twelve  hours  at  a  stretch.  I  don't  think 
anybody  else  would.  Take  the  evidence  of  Mr.  McCarty 
as  a  fair  sample  of  the  character  of  this  work.  He  works 
a  little  less  than  twelve  hours  each  day.  He  says  he  makes 
twenty-three  round  trips.,  which  is  forty-six  single  trips 
a  day.  He  said  of  those  trips  six  trips  are  heavy  trips. 
His  run  is  fifteen  minutes  long,  takes  fifteen  minutes  from 
one  end  to  the  other,  and  he  said  on  the  heavy  trips  it 
took  him  half  of  the  time  working  diligently  to  take  up 
the  fares.  So  it  takes  him  about  seven  and  a  half  minutes 
of  diligent  work,  strenuous  work,  we  will  say,  to  take  up 
his  fares  on  six  of  those  trips.  That  is  forty-five  minutes 
a  day  of  really  strenuous  work.  The  balance  of  the  time 
the  work  is  comparatively  steady  and  comparatively  light 
He  has  a  nice,  clean  place  to  work;  he  meets  his  fellow- 
men  and  he  has  a  chance  to  converse  with  them  to  a  limit- 
ed extent.  He  is  not  shut  up  in  a  factory  hearing  a 
tremendous  buzz  of  machinery,  and  with  no  opportunity 
for  mental  play ;  but  he  is  out  among  his  fellows  with  com- 
paratively light  work,  except  for  forty-five  minutes  a  day. 
That  is  not  such  hard  work  or  such  a  tremendous  strain 
on  the  human  system  that  the  eleven  or  twelve  hours  he 
spends  at  it  is  enough  to  materially  injure  him.  I  think 
his  is  a  sample  case;  at  least  that  is  the  only  evidence  in 
this  case  as  to  the  particular  manner  in  which,  these  men 
spend  their  time.  A  motorman,  for  instance,  has  no  oc- 
casion to  use  his  physical  strength  to  amount  to  any- 


91 

thing.  He  has  new  and  modern  appliances ;  he  has  a  nice, 
clean  place  to  work  where  he  is  not  disturbed  or  interfered 
with.  He  is  out  on  the  street  passing  hither  and  yon, 
seeing  things  that  suggest  matters  to  his  mind  that  interest 
him.  It  is  not  severe  work,  so  that  the  hours  perhaps,  are 
not  as  large  a  factor  in  this  case  as  they  might  be  in 
other  kinds  of  work. 

Now,  there  is  one  other  topic,  gentlemen,  to  which  I 
really  intended  to  allot  more  time  than  I  have  for  it,  and 
what  I  say  in  this  connection,  I  wish  to  say  at  the  outset 
is  confined  strictly  to  the  institution  with  which  I  have  to 
deal.  I  do  not  want  my  remarks  to  be  construed  as 
criticisms  upon  labor  organizations  generally,  or  upon 
the  right  of  men  to  organize,  which  is  undoubted — one,  I 
think,  a  valuable  right  to  them,  one  that  ought  to  be  pro- 
tected and  respected — but  we  have  to  deal  here  with  the 
question  of  whether  this  commission  will  marry  this  com- 
pany to  this  particular  union. 

Now,  in  the  first  place,  we  have  objected  to  its  considera- 
tion at  all  upon  the  ground  that  it  was  not  within  the 
terms  of  the  contract  of  November  7th,  and  evidence  has 
been  introduced  here  to  show  that  there  was  a  great  effort 
upon  the  part  of  these  gentlemen  to  have  incorporated 
into  that  contract  something  that  would  amount  to  a  recog- 
nition of  the  union.  It  was  eliminated,  and  eliminated 
over  their  objection,  and  the  contract  was  signed  only  by 
the  committee  of  employes  of  this  company.  And  it  was 
specifically  stated  in  that  contract  that  all  proceedings 
should  be  in  the  name  of  the  committee  of  employees  of 
this  company.  That  contract  said  all  grievances  are  to  be 
presented  at  this  time  and  heard  at  this  time.  It  is  not 
to    be  presumed   there   are   any   grievances   except   the 


92 

grievances  now  before  this  commission.  The  finding  of 
this  commission  is  to  settle  all  matters  in  controversy  for 
a  period  of  three  years.  It  is  not  to  be  presumed  there 
are  to  be  any  additional  grievances  in  which  the  body  of 
men,  as  such,  are  interested  within  that  period  of  three 
years.  Therefore,  it  seems  to  me  it  is  entirely  beside  the 
point  to  say  that  a  contract  shall  be  entered  into  which 
shall  recognize  that  there  may  be  grievances,  or  there  will 
be  grievances,  to  be  determined  within  the  period  of  three 
years,  other  than  what  we  have  here.  We  have  a  contract 
which  is  to  settle  the  rights  of  these  parties  for  three  years. 
Why  should  we  be  required  to  enter  into  another  contract, 
which  will  bear  upon  our  relations  with  our  men  during 
that  period  of  three  years  We  have  an  arbitration  here 
which  is  to  settle  all  matters  for  that  three  years.  Why 
should  we  be  required  to  enter  into  a  contract  which  will 
provide  for  another  arbitration  within  that  period  of  three 
years,  covering  any  matters  whatsoever?  If  there  is  a 
contract  for  any  future  arbitration,  then  the  results  of  this 
arbitration,  we  might  say,  could  be  brought  into  question 
in  future  arbitrations,  or  at  least  something  which  might 
arise  under  the  conditions  which  are  promulgated  by  this 
arbitration  could  be  brought  in  question  under  such  an 
arbitration,  so  it  is  multiplying  arbitration  upon  arbitra- 
tion. 

Moreover,  it  is  clear  we  cannot  be  required  to  enter  into 
any  contract  which  will  extend  beyond  the  three  years. 
It  was  the  purpose  of  this  contract  to  settle  matters  for 
three  years  and  no  longer;  therefore,  we  cannot  be  re- 
quired to  enter  into  any  contract  with  anybody  for  any 
kind  of  an  arbitration  which  will  extend  beyond  this  period 
of  three  years.  There  is  no  necessity  for  any  contract  on 
any  subject  within  that  period  of  three  years.    So  if  this 


93 

contract  of  November  7th  amounts  to  anything  at  all, 
it  eliminates  necessity  for  another  contract. 

Chairman  Duncan  :  Assume  now  that  a  man  was  un- 
justly discharged.    What  is  the  remedy? 

Mr.  Latta  :  Your  Honor  I  do  not  understand  that  we 
can  be  required  to  enter  into  any  contract  which  shall  re- 
late to  the  specific  grievance  of  any  man  not  in  existence 
at  this  time.  That  is  not  the  spirit  of  this  contract  at  all. 
This  contract  relates  to  common  grievances,  which 
relate  to  our  body  of  men,  and  when  they  are 
settled,  all  grievances  touching  our  men  as  a  whole 
are  disposed  of  for  a  period  of  three  years.  I  do  not  under- 
stand it  is  the  object  of  this  contract  to  take  up  specific 
grievances  of  any  one  man,  unless  he  is  refused  reinstate- 
ment because  he  was;  a  member  of  this  union  at  the  time 
the  men  went  back  to  work.  That  is  provided  for.  It  is 
provided  if  any  man  is  refused  to  be  allowed  to  go  back 
to  work,  it  is  his  privilege  to  come  before  you. 

Chairman  Duncan:  There  is  a  grievance;  you  won't 
hear  the  men.  One  of  the  things  they  want  is  how  sub- 
sequent controversies  shall  be  determined.  That  is  the 
grievance  set  out  here. 

Mr.  Latta:  I  concede,  your  Honor,  there  may  be  in- 
dividual grievances  of  individual  men,  which  may  arise 
within  the  three  years. 

Chairman  Duncan:  That  is  one  of  the^  things  com- 
plained of. 

Mr.  Latta  :  If  I  understand  your  Honor's  question,  it 
is  confined  to  that? 

Chairman  Duncan:     Yes. 

Mr.  Latta:  As  to  the  individual  grievances  of  any 
individual  man,  your  Honors  may  decide  how  they  shall 
be  dealt  with,  but  that  we  are  compelled  to  enter  into  any 


94 

contract  as  to  how  they  shall  be  dealt  with,  I  question. 
Your  Honors  may  say  if  any  one  man  has  a  grievance,  he 
has  the  right  to  go  to  the  superintendent  with  that  griev- 
ance, and  he  may  appeal  to  the  president  if  not  satisfied 
with  the  decision  of  the  superintendent.  He  may  obtain 
justice  in  such  a  manner  as  your  Honors  think  is  proper 
for  him  to  obtain  justice. 

I  am  speaking  about  compelling  the  company  to  enter 
into  a  contract.  If  I  used  language  which  could  by  any 
possibility  mean  that  men  should  not  have  grievances  ad- 
judged and  disposed  of  after  your  Honor's  decision  in 
this  case,  I  want  to  correct  that  language.  I  address  my- 
self to  the  subject  of  compelling  the  company  to  enter  into 
a  further  contract,  and  I  say  as  to  entering  into  any 
further  contract,  it  is  absolutely  /unnecessary  and  un- 
called for,  because  the  decision  of  your  Honors  upon  the 
contract  we  have,  will  provide  how  the  grievances  of  any 
individual  man  shall  be  redressed  during  that  period  of 
three  years.  So,  it  is  not  necessary  for  this  company  to 
enter  into  a  contract  to  redress  those  grievances.  It  must 
redress  them  under  the  decision  of  this  board  of  arbitra- 
tion in  the  manner  your  Honors  say  they  shall  be  re- 
dressed.    Have  I  made  myself  clear? 

Chairman  Duncan:  That  was  my  idea  of  it  all  the 
time. 

Mr.  Latta:  I  intended  to  confine  my  remarks  to  the 
question  of  entering  into  a  new  and  subsequent  contract, 
and  to  say  that  this  company  ought  not  to  be  required — 
it  was  never  intended  it  should  be  required  to  enter  into 
any  other  contract  than  the  contract  of  November  7th. 

It  would  be  inequitable  to  compel  this  company  to  enter 
into  a  contract  with  this  particular  association,  and  in 
that  connection  I  want  to  briefly  sketch  its  character, 


95 

its  operations  and  the  situation  upon  which  it  operated 
in  the  City  of  Indianapolis. 

Its  character  is  indicated  by  the  report  of  its  general 
board  as  to  its  method  of  operation,  in  these  words :  "The 
wonderful  success  of  the  association  in  strikes  and  lock- 
outs may  be  attributed  in  no  small  degree  to  her  formid- 
able defense  resources.  Street  and  electric  railway  man- 
agements have  become  aware  of  the  fact  that  the  associa- 
tion is  in  a  position  to  make  strikes  and  lockouts  expensive 
by  her  extensive  opportunity  to  continue  struggles  to  the 
point  where  financial  loss  to  the  employing  company  will 
be  greater  than  the  additional  expense  of  meeting  rea- 
sonable demands  of  an  organized  body  of  men." 

Now,  with  that  as  its  bill  of  rights,  its  constitution,  it 
sends  its  representatives  to  the  City  of  Indianapolis,  and 
what  was  the  situation  in  the  City  of  Indianapolis  at  that 
time?  The  situation  was  that  for  twenty  years  we  have 
had  here  industrial  peace  as  far  as  this  company  is  con- 
cerned. 

Fifty-five  men,  as  fine  men  as  ever  stepped  into  this 
senatei  chamber,  have  told  you  that  there  did  not  exist  any 
grievance  upon  the  part  of  this  body  of  men  against  their 
company.  The  superintendent  has  come  up  from  the  ranks, 
the  assistant  superintendent  has  come  up  from  the  ranks, 
and  all  the  barn  foremen  have  come  up  from  the  ranks; 
and  it  was  John,  and  Jim,  and  Joe,  and  they  were  all 
working  together  in  the  management  of  this  company 
without  friction,  without  hard  feeling,  without  distrust. 

They  have  tried  to  make  out  that  somebody  connected 
with  this  company  sent  for  these  men.  The  evidence  is 
absolutely  to  the  contrary. 

On  the  18th  of  August  Mr.  Mahon  telegraphed  to  Rezin 


96 

Orr  at  the  Denison  Hotel  in  Indianapolis  and  said, 
"Thorpe  and  Shea  have  been  instructed  to  report  to  you 
at  once." 

Mr.  Thorpe  said  he  was  telegraphed  for. 

The  next  morning  Mr.  Rezin  Orr  received  a  telegram 
from  Mr.  Thorpe,  saying  he  was  leaving  Pittsburg  at 
9:15. 

The  next  day,  on  August  20th,  Mr.  Orr  and  Mr.  Thorpe 
sent  a  cipher  telegram  to  Mr.  Mahon,  the  meaning  of 
which  we  do  not  know,  but  the  meaning  of  which  may 
be  very  readily  guessed,  "Division  Six  Party  Two  In- 
dianapolis Five  Seventeen  Twelve." 

On  that  very  day  Mahon  telegraphed  Rezin  Orr  and 
said,  "Your  telegram  received  and  have  wired  the  board. 
If  immediate  action  is  necessary  I  assure  you  of  their 
support." 

On  the  23rd  Mr.  Mahon  telegraphed  to  Rezin  Orr  and 
said,  "You  have  the  sanction  of  the  Board." 

Now,  they  continued  their  operations.  There  is  not 
a  word  there,  there  is  not  a  word  anywhere  in  any  of 
these  telegrams  from  beginning  to  end  that  labor  condi- 
tions in  Indianapolis,  so  far  as  the  street  railway  com- 
pany is  concerned  were  improper.  There  is  not  anything 
about  oppressed  employees,  about  long  hours,  about  poor 
pay,  about  grinding  down  upon  the  part  of  the  employer 
— nothing. 

They  were  simply  organizing  a  union. 

Nothing  more  is  said  until  the  20th  of  the  next  month, 
"Company  discharging  men  for  membership,  would  ask 
endorsement  to  suspend  work." 

On  the  12th  of  September,  Mr.  Beatty  telegraphed  to 
Mr.  Mahon,  and  said,  "Send  representative  to  Indian- 
apolis at  once." 


97 

On  the  next  day  Mr.  Gorman  was  telegraphed  to  by  Mr 
Thorpe,  and  said,  "Telegram  received.  You  know  con- 
dition. Come.  Will  take  up  expense  with  National 
Board." 

On  the  next  day  Mahon  telegraphed  Fitzgerald,  "Look 
the  situation  over,  if  you  need  men  possibly  you  can  en- 
gage three  or  four  from  the  trades  there." 

On  the  next  day  Mahon  telegraphed  Thorpe  and  said, 
"Continue  your  work  there  with  circulars  until  you  hear 
from  me,  best  not  call  a  meeting  yet." 

On  the  28th  day  of  September,  Mr.  Fox  and  others 
telegraphed  Frank  Morrison,  Secretary  of  the  American 
Federation  of  Labor,  "We  are  now  confronted  with  the 
work  of  organizing  all  labor  connected  with  the  street 
railway  in  Indianapolis,  Terre  Haute,  Fort  Wayne,  and 
other  Indiana  cities.  It  is  beyond  our  power  to  cover  the 
field,  so  we  appeal  to  you  to  send  immediately  two  organ- 
izers to  assist  us." 

As  to  this  night  letter,  Mr.  Morrison  telegraphed  to  Mr. 
Mahon,  and  said,  "Your  night  letter  received  yesterday, 
and  have  delayed  answering  until  could  give  definite  an- 
swer. Will  place  one  or  more  organizers  in  field  to  assist 
you.    Wire  me  when  you  want  them  to  start  in." 

Mr.  Mahon  then  telegraphed  on  the  2nd  of  October  to 
Mr.  Thorpe  and  said,  "Have  wire  from  Morrison  that  he 
is  sending  man  today." 

Now,  on  the  12th  of  October — remember  he  had  been 
here  from  the  18th  day  of  August — on  the  12th  of  October 
Mahon  said  in  a  telegram  to  Thorpe,  "Have  received  in- 
struction from  Samuel  Grompers,  President  American 
Federation  of  Labor  that  there  be  no  radical  action  taken 
until  Secretary  Wilson  of  the  U.  S.  Government  can  get 
there  and  make  an  investigation.     You  will  advise  com- 


98 

mittees  of  Central  body  and  carry  out  these  instructions." 
On  the  16th  of  October — here  is  the  most  significant 
telegram  of  all — on  the  16th  of  October,  A.  S.  Lowry 
telegraphed  to  William  D.  Mahon:  "As  chairman  of 
special  committee  of  Central  Labor  Union,  speaking  per- 
sonallly,  I  feel  organized  labor  will  back  you  morally  and 
financially  to  a  successful  finish  and  will  carry  out  any 
instructions  you  may  give.  We  must  assert  and  maintain 
the  right  to  have  these  car  men  organized.  Immediate 
action  necessary. 

A.  S.  Lowry." 
"We  will  back  you  in  any  instructions  you  may  give; 
we  must  assert  the  right  to  have  these  car  men  organized." 

Now,  does  that  show,  gentlemen,  these  men  were  groan- 
ing under  their  wrongs;  wrongs  that  needed  redress? — 
No,  not  by  any  means.  It  shows  that  Thorpe  had  been  going 
as  he  said  he  had  been  going,  from  meeting  to  meeting 
in  this  city,  addressing  all  labor  organizations  in  this 
city,  getting  together  his  gang,  and  that  Mr.  Lowry  was 
telegraphing  to  Mahon  that,  "We  will  back  you,  we  will 
follow  the  instructions  that  you  give;  we  will  riot;  we 
will  break  up  property;  we  will  throw  Indianapolis  into 
a  reign  of  terror." 

"We  assert  the  right  to  have  these  car  men  organized 
whether  they  want  to  be  organized  or  not,  whether  they 
have  grievances  or  not.  It  is  our  right  to  have  them 
organized." 

That  is  the  situation,  gentlemen,  on  the  16th  day  of 
October.  Now,  that  very  day,  Mr.  Thorpe  telegraphed 
to  Mr.  Mahon  and  said,  'Will  you  give  me  authority  to 
suspend  work  here.  Situation  needs  immediate  action. 
Answer." 


99 

Do  you  remember  what  was  happening  in  Indianapolis 
on  that  day?  The  evidence  shows  they  had  a  meeting,  I 
think  at  Germania  Hall.  After  that  meeting  in  the  eve- 
ning the  streets  were  full  of  these  people,  rioting,  march- 
ing, throwing  rocks  and  bricks  through  the  ticket  booth 
at  Illinois  and  Washington  street,  and  injuring  the  ticket 
man,  beyond  the  control  of  the  police,  marching  down  and 
assaulting  the  Louisiana  street  bam,  and  carrying  on  such 
a  riot  there,  that  before  that  night  was  over  a  man  was 
shot.  That  is  the  day  Mr.  Thorpe  asked  authority  to 
suspend  work,  because  he  felt  himself  strong  enough — as 
they  say  in  the  body  of  their  constitution — he  felt  him- 
self strong  enough  to  come  into  the  City  of  Indianapolis, 
and  make  it  so  expensive  for  this  company  that  it  would 
be  compelled  to  yield  to  his  demands.  All  for  the  privilege, 
gentlemen,  of  having  these  men  organized  whether  they 
willed  it  or  not. 

Well,  they  did  not  call  the  strike.  Why  did  they  not 
call  it?  Mahon  telegraphed  back  and  said,  "You  under- 
stand the  instructions  of  President  Grompers  requesting 
that  there  be  no  suspension  there  until  the  government 
made  its  investigation  as  you  and  the  central  body  had  re- 
quested I  have  promised  him  that  that  will  be  carrier  out 
with  demand  that  you  carry  out  the  instructions  of  the 
association." 

Mahon,  in  other  words,  to  fulfill  his  promise  to  Presi- 
dent Gompers  did  not  give  the  right  to  susi>end  work,  and 
therefore  the  proceedings  of  that  day  ended  with  rioting 
on  Washington  street,  with  the  destruction  of  the  ticket 
booth,  and  the  assaulting  of  the  Louisiana  street  barns, 
and  the  killing  of  a  man.    They  were  all  ready. 

There  are  a  large  number  of  these  telegrams ;  how  they 


100 

tied  up  the  cars;  haw  they  called  the  men  out  when  the 
time  came,  and  they  felt  strong  enough  to  bring  this  com- 
pany to  their  feet;  how  they  tried  to  call  out  all  the  men 
in  Indiana  everywhere,  and  how  all  the  men  in  Indiana 
did  not  go  out.  Why?  Because  they  had  no  organiza- 
tion. 

Why,  gentlemen,  it  has  been  asserted  here  by  these  men 
that  they  had  serveral  hundred  men  in  their  union  at  that 
time.  I  have  examined  into  the  evidence  in  this  case,  and  of 
all  the  men  who  have  testified  here  in  behalf  of  this  com- 
mittee, eleven  men  only  said  that  they  were  members  of  the 
union  at  the  time  that  strike  was  called.  They  themselves 
called  as  witnesses  man  after  man  that  did  not  know  there 
was  to  be  a  strike,  and  never  knew  it  until  he  reported  for 
work  the  next  day,  was  not  a  member  of  the  union,  never 
was  approached  on  the  subject  of  being  a  member  of  the 
union.  Eleven  men,  and  eleven  men  only  who  have  ap- 
peared here  as  witnesses  out  of  over  one  hundred  men  who 
have  testified,  were  members  of  that  union  at  the  time  the 
strike  was  called,  and  more  than  half  those  men  were  not 
employed  by  the  company,  and  some  of  them  had  not  been 
for  three  months  before. 

Then  what  was  done?  They  had  another  mass  meeting. 
They  sent  a  demand  by  two  men  to  Mr.  Todd,  requiring 
him  to  answer  upon  a  proposition  that  involved  the  ex- 
penditure by  this  company  of  over  six  hundred  thousand 
dollars  a  year ;  to  answer  by  noon  the  next  day.  They  did 
not  make  that  demand  in  good  faith.  No  business  man 
would  decide  a  matter  of  that  magnitude  on  such  notice. 
They  never  intended  or  expected  he  would  make  any  an- 
swer to  it  in  that  time.  They  had  their  strike  call  in  the 
hands  of  the  printer  at  noon  of  that  day,  while  Mr.  Todd 
still  had  the  right  to  make  his  answer.    They  suspended 


101 

work.  They  had  a  mass  meeting  that  night.  They  boiled 
out  of  that  mass  meeting  on  the  streets  of  Indianapolis, 
men  like  this  little  iron  worker  that  appeared  here  to 
testify  in  rebuttal,  and  thus  terrorized  the  loyal  employees 
of  this  coniipany,  and  drove  them  from  their  ears.  In  spite 
of  the  rioting  and  destruction  of  property  that  occurred 
that  night,  in  spite  of  the  assaults,  in  spite  of  the  fact  that 
men  were  dragged  off  their  cars,  the  next  morning  the 
loyal  employees  of  this  company  reported  for  work,  and 
63  cars  went  on  their  regular  runs. 

Does  that  indicate,  gentlemen,  that  these  men  were 
moaning  and  groaning  under  grievances  that  had  not  been 
redressed? 

Just  think  of  a  man  like  Tom  Mulrey  who  has  been  with 
this  company  25  years,  and  raised  a  family  of  children  and 
given  them  high  school  educations,  although  he  himself 
only  went  as  far  as  the  third  reader.  He  saved  his  money 
and  lived  an  honorable  life  in  this  community.  He  was 
assaulted  by  these  men,  bricks  were  thrown  through  his 
car,  and  glass  showered  down  over  his  face;  he  was  com- 
pelled to  complete  his  run  that  night  with  blood  streaming 
down  his  face,  and  his  eye  filled  with  the  shattered  pieces 
of  glass  that  had  entered  it. 

Think  of  Jim  Finneron,  who  has  been  with  this  com- 
pany for  thirty  years.  He  is  an  ignorant  man,  but  he  is 
an  honest  man.  Hq  has  saved  his  money  and  accumulated 
a  competency,  has  held  an  honorable  position,  and  was  re- 
spected by  his  employer.  When  he  tried  to  run  his  car  on 
that  day  they  stopped  him  and  broke  in  the  vestibule  of 
that  car,  and  cut  his  head,  and  he  was  taken  into  the 
Louisiana  street  barn  with  the  blood  streaming  down  over 
his  face  and  clothes. 

Sixty-three  cars  in  operation,  gentlemen,  and  Judge  Koby 


102 

says  that  the  42  men  that  came  here  out  of  the  car  service 
of  this  company,  and  told  you  they  had  no  grievances,  that 
they  were  satisfied,  that  everything  was  going  along 
smoothly,  those  men  are  not  to  be  believed. 

Now  do  you  wonder  that  this  company  refuses,  and  has 
refused,  and  is  contending  here  that  under  no  considera- 
tion or  circumstance  could  it  be  compelled  to  enter  into  a 
contract  with  this  concern? 

I  have  only  to  read  the  language  of  the  Federal  Court 
in  the  case  of  the  United  States  against  Hagerty,  116 
Federal  Keporter,  Page  515,  to  show  how  conduct  such 
as  this  is  regarded  by  the  judges  of  this  country,  in  the 
light  of  our  laws. 

"It  is  not  my  purpose  to  enter  into  any  lengthy 
discussion  of  the  remedies  by  injunction  other  than 
to  state  what  seems  to  me  to  be  the  well  settled  rule 
of  law  in  its  application  to  strikes^ — that  the  power 
of  the  court  may  be  invoked  to  restrain  and  inhibit 
a  combination  which  is  formed  to  induce  employes 
who  are  not  dissatisfied  with  the  terms  of  their  em- 
ployment to  strike  for  the  purpose  of  inflicting  in- 
jury and  damage  upon  the  employers.  In  the  case 
we  have  under  consideration  the  bill  alleges  that 
there  is  a  combination  of  persons  who  are  know^n  as 
'organizers/  agitators'  and  'walking  delegates,' 
who  come  from  other  states  for  the  purpose  of  in- 
ducing a  strike  in  the  soft  coal  fields  of  the  state  of 
West  Virginia ;  that  their  object  and  purpose  is  to 
induce  persons  who  are  not  dissatisfied  with  the 
terms  of  their  employment,  and,  who  are  not  asking 
any  increase  in  their  wages,  to  cease  work  for  their 
employers,  thereby  inflicting  great  damage  and  in- 
jury upon  them.  It  is  to  be  observed  that  a  very  large 
portion  of  the  miners  in  the  employ  of  the  Clarks- 
burg Fuel  Company  do  not  want,  in  the  language  of 
one  of  the  agitators,  who  is  enjoined,  'To  lay  down 
their  picks  and  shovels  and  quit  work.'     I  do  not 


103 

qaestion  the  right  of  the  employes  of  this  company 
to  quit  work  at  any  time  they  desire  to  do  so,  unless 
there  is  a  contractual  relation  between  them  and  the 
employer  whicli  should  control  their  right  to  quit. 
At  the  same  time  I  do  not  recognize  the  right  of  an 
employer  to  coerce  the  employes  to  continue  their 
work  when  they  desire  to  quit.  But  can  it  be  said 
that  where  a  conspiracy  exists  to  control  the  em- 
ployes, as  in  this  instance,  either  by  threats,  intimi- 
dation, or  a  resort  to  any  other  modes  usually  ac- 
companying the  action  of  strikers,  that  such  action 
upon  their  part  is  not  only  illegal,  but  a  malicious 
and  illegal  interference  with  the  employer's  busi- 
ness? The  question  is  its  best  answer.  While  I 
recognize  the  right  for  all  laborers  to  combine  for 
the  purpose  of  protecting  all  their  lawful  rights, 
I  do  not  recognize  the  right  of  laborers  to  conspire 
together  to  compel  employes  who  are  not  dissatis- 
fied with  their  work  in  the  mines  to  lay  down  their 
picks  and  shovels  and  to  quit  their  work,  without  a 
just  or  proper  reason  therefor,  merely  to  gratify  a 
professional  set  of  'agitators,  organizers,  and 
walking  delegates'  who  roam  all  over  the  country 
as  agents  for  some  combination,  who  are  vampires 
that  live  and  fatten  on  the  honest  labor  of  the  coal 
miners  of  the  country,  and  who  are  busy-bodies 
creating  dissatisfaction  amongst  a  class  of  people 
who  are  quiet,  well  disposed,  and  who  do  not  want 
to  be  disturbed  by  the  unceasing  agitation  of  this 
class  of  people.  In  the  case  we  have  under  con- 
sideration these  defendants  are  known  as  profes- 
sional agitators,  organizers,  and  walking  delegates. 
They  have  nothing  in  common  with  the  people  who 
are  employed  in  the  mines  of  the  Clarksburg  Fuel 
Company.  The  evidence  in  this  case  shows  that 
their  only  object  and  purpose  is  to  get  the  people 
who  are  in  the  employment  of  the  Clarksburg  Fuel 
Company  to  go  out  upon  a  strike,  as  it  is  termed, 
for  the  purpose  of  compelling  the  owners  of  the 
mines  to  advance  an  increase  in  their  wages.  It 
discloses  that  the  miners  in   the  Pinnickkinnick 


104 

mines  are  making  an  average  of  |4  a  day  in  excess 
of  their  legitimate  expenses,  many  of  whom  have 
worked  in  foreign  countries  for  less  than  a  half  a 
dollar  a  day.  The  defendants  in  this  case  are  not 
laborers  in  the  mines,  and  have  no  connection  with 
them  whatever.  Their  mission  here  is  to  foment 
trouble,  create  dissatisfaction  among  the  employes 
in  coal  mines,  producing  strikes,  which  tends  great- 
ly to  damage  and  injure  the  business  of  the  em- 
ployers. In  this  case  there  is  no  dissatisfaction 
among  the  larger  number  of  the  miners.  Only  a 
small  part  of  them  have  quit  the  mines  from  fear 
of  intimidation  threats,  and  violence,  but  those  re- 
maining in  the  mines  say  they  will  quit  work  unless 
they  are  protected  against  the  threats  of  these  agita- 
tors and  organizers.  The  strong  arm  of  the  court 
of  equity  is  invoked  in  this  case,  not  to  suppress  the 
right  of  free  speech,  but  to  restrain  and  inhibit 
these  defendants,  whose  only  purpose  is  to  bring 
about  strikes,  by  trying  to  coerce  people  who  are  not 
dissatisfied  with  the  terms  of  their  employment, 
which  results  in  inflicting  injury  and  damage  to 
their  employers,  as  well  as  the  employes. 

"It  is  apparent  that,  if  these  agitators  are  per- 
mitted to  interfere  with  the  orderly,  well-disposed 
miners  who  are  anxious  to  work,  and  contented  with 
the  wages  they  receive,  in  the  end  this  contented 
class  of  miners  would,  through  fear,  intimidation, 
as  well  as  threats,  be  induced  to  throw  down  their 
shovels  and  picks,  and  cease  to  work  in  the  mines, 
whereby  the  Clarksburg  Fuel  Company  would  be 
greatly  damaged.  Not  only  would  it  be  greatly 
damaged,  but  it  would  be  prevented  from  fulfilling 
its  contracts  for  the  future  delivery  of  the  product 
of  its  mines.  The  right  of  a  citizen  to  labor  for 
wages  that  he  is  satisfied  with  is  a  right  protected 
by  law,  and  is  entitled  to  the  same  protection  as 
free  speech,  and  should  be  better  protected  than  the 
abuse  of  free  speech,  in  which  the  organizers  and 
agitators  indulge  in  trying  to  produce  strikes." 


105 

Now,  they  did  that.  The  evidence  shows  that  even  when 
the  city  government  was  paralyzed;  when  the  county  gov- 
ernment was  paralyzed;  and  when  the  streets  of  the  City 
of  Indianapolis  were  littered  with  the  debris  from  these 
cars,  this  company  stood  firm  upon  its  right  that  it  would 
not  contract  with  these  men.  It  had  no  objection  to  meet- 
ing its  employes ;  it  had  never  failed  to  meet  its  employes. 
Man  after  man  has  come  here  and  told  you  Mr.  Mahoney 
treated  him  as  a  gentleman.  It  did  not  then  refuse  to 
meet  its  employes,  but  it  did  refuse  to  meet  this  unlawful 
aggregation,  who  purposed  to  inflict  itself  upon  this  com- 
pany and  upon  these  people  by  force  and  intimidation. 

Now,  as  a  result  of  all  that,  what  do  they  desire  to  ac- 
complish? They  desire  to  restrict  the  right  of  this  com- 
pany to  run  its  business.  They  desire  every  time  a  man  is 
discharged  to  proceed  upon  the  assumption  that  the  official 
discharging  him  is  corrupt  and  crooked,  and  he  has  dis- 
charged him  with  some  ulterior  motive.  They  say,  "You 
must  show  us  he  is  properly  discharged  or  we  will  take  it 
to  arbitration."  They  say  if  it  is  necessary  to  reduce  the 
force  of  these  men  25  per  cent. — in  answer  to  a  question 
from  the  bench',  they  say,  "We  will  dictate  who  shall  be 
discharged." 

They  want  a  closed  shop,  although  it  has  been  stated 
time  and  time  again  by  the  highest  courts  in  this  country 
that  a  closed  shop  is  contrary  to  public  policy.  They  want 
to  say  union  men,  and  union  men  alone  shall  work;  and 
that  no  other  men  shall  work  for  this  company,  or  be  em- 
ployed. They  want,  in  other  words,  to  enter  into  joint 
operation  of  this  property  with  this  company.  A  condi- 
tion which  will  create  constant  friction.  What  has  been 
the  result  so  far?     You  have  seen  men  come  here  and 


106 

show  the  greatest  feeling  against  this  company  and  its 
officers;  stirring  up  hatred  between  this  company  and  its 
employes ;  making  constant  trouble.  As  Mr.  Mahoney  said, 
it  is  friction,  friction,  friction,  all  the  time,  where  before 
there  was  industrial  peace.  That  is  what  they  desire  to 
do,  and  they  desire  you  men  to  say  we  must  enter  into  a 
contract  with  them  in  order  that  they  may  do  that  to  us. 

Now,  gentlemen,  I  said  to  Mr.  McNamee,  "Is  a  strike 
according  to  your  philosophy  entitled  to  succeed,  if  it  can 
only  succeed  by  force,  intimidation,  and  the  destruction 
of  property?"  He  answered,  "No."  It  is  inequitable  that 
any  strike  should  succeed  where,  by  its  own  force,  and  by 
the  wrongs  which  are  behind  it  and  produce  it,  it  cannot 
succeed.  This  strike  could  not  succeed.  Why  this  strike 
would  not  have  amounted  to  a  picayune ;  these  men  desired 
to  work ;  they  were  ready  and  willing  to  work ;  they  stood 
by  the  company  on  their  jobs,  and  this  strike  would  not 
have  amounted  to  anything,  it  would  have  passed  off  like 
a  breath,  except  for  the  violence  and  intimidation  that  was 
nsed.  Should  these  men  receive  the  benefits?  Should  they 
be  rewarded  when  not  having  a  cause  that  they  could 
adequately  present  by  peaceable  methods — when  they  could 
not  succeed  without  violating  the  law? — they  neverthe- 
less violated  the  law  so  they  could  succeed?  Is  that  equity  ? 
It  is  an  equitable  principle,  gentlemen,  that  is  grounded 
in  the  very  foundations  of  our  government,  that  he  who 
seeks  equity  must  do  equity.  Is  it  equity  to  inflict  a  dam- 
age on  this  company  of  perhaps  one  hundred  thousand 
dollars,  to  prevent  its  carrying  forward  its  business,  to 
disrupt  its  organization  when  the  demand  for  that  inter- 
ruption does  not  come  from  the  men  themselves,  but  is 
forced  upon  them  by  outside  influences ;  when  in  order  to 


107 

make  the  strike  succeed  men  have  to  be  driven  from  their 
cars,  and  a  tremendous  crowd  of  hoodlums  have  to  be 
gathered;  if  illegality  has  to  preside  over  the  whole  mat- 
ter— is  it  equity  that  they  should  succeed  and  be  rewarded 
in  this  case?  If  so,  it  is  no  longer  an  equitable  principle 
that  he  who  desires  equity  should  do  equity. 

Now  in  conclusion,  I  wish  to  thank  you,  gentlemen, 
very  sincerely,  for  the  attention  you  have  given  my  client 
and  myself  in  this  case,  and  for  the  very  great  patience 
with  which  you  have  listened  to  this  argument.  And 
to  express  my  absolute,  unqualified  belief  that  what  you 
do  you  will  do  from  a  supreme  sense  of  right.  I  wish  to 
say  that  if  it  shall  be  the  judgment  of  the  members  of  this 
Commission,  that  they  can  properly  announce  an  opinion 
setting  forth  the  processes  of  reasoning  by  which  they 
arrive  at  their  conclusion,  and  the  underlying  principles 
which  should  govern  in  a  case  of  this  kind,  I  believe  it 
would  be  the  greatest  step  forward  we  have  taken  in  arbi- 
tration proceedings  in  the  United  States  up  to  the  pres- 
ent time.  Here  is  an  absolutely  impartial  Commission, 
an  arm  of  the  Government.  We  have  heretofore  received 
from  other  commissions  which  may  have  deliberated  in 
various  parts  of  the  United  States  no  inkling  of  the  prin- 
ciples which  governed  their  respective  decisions.  We  are, 
in  my  opinion,  at  the  very  beginning  in  some  form  or  an- 
other of  legalized  arbitration,  which  will  blot  out  from 
our  history  all  excuse  for  a  repetition  of  such  a  strike  as 
this.  Men  will  be  ready  and  willing  to  fly  to  arbitration 
if  they  may  know  what  their  rights  are,  and  may  know 
the  principles  upon  which  their  rights  are  to  be  deter- 
mined. Men  will  not  resort  to  force  and  arms  if  they 
have  any  reasonable  assurance  that  there  are  principles 
underlying  arbitration  which  will  be  observed  in  the  hear- 


108 

ing  of  such  cases,  and  John  Marshall  himself  had  no 
greater  opportunity  for  the  exploitation  of  his  wonderful 
ability,  and  his  commanding  integrity,  than  you  gentle- 
men have  in  announcing  to  the  world  the  rules  and  prin- 
ciples which  should  govern  decisions  in  arbitration  cases. 
If  you  shall  see  fit  in  your  pleasure  to  do  this  I  believe 
you  will  have  siezed  an  opportunity  to  enshrine  your- 
selves in  the  hearts  of  a  grateful  people. 
I  thank  you. 


109 


APPENDIX 

Containing  certain  items  of  evidence  which  could  not 
be  fully  commented  on  in  the  time  agreed  upon  for  argu- 
ment. 

Under  this  contract  the  arbitration  was  held : 
PROPOSITION. 

1.  That  the  Indianapolis  Traction  and  Terminal  Com- 
pany agrees  that  all  men  who  went  out  on  the  strike  de- 
clared October  31,  1913,  shall  return  to  work  mth  full 
seniority  rights  and  without  prejudice  and  all  men  who 
were  discharged  on  account  of  becoming  members  of  a 
labor  organization  or  contemplating  the  same  be  reinstat- 
ed without  prejudice,  but  the  company  shall  not  be  re- 
quired to  reinstate  any  employe  who  has  taken  part  in 
acts  of  violence  against  its  property.  Any  employe  whose 
reinstatement  is  refused  shall  have  the  right  to  be  heard 
by  the  Public  Service  Commission  of  Indiana  and  if  its 
decision  is  in  his  favor  shall  be  reinstated. 

2.  That  all  grievances  of  every  kind  and  character  as 
to  wages  and  conditions  shall  within  five  days  from  the 
resumption  of  the  service  by  the  Company  be  presented 
to  and  taken  up  by  the  Company,  and  if  not  satisfactorily 
adjusted  within  ten  (10)  days  thereafter  shall  be  referred 
to  the  Public  Service  Commission  of  the  State  of  Indiana 
for  final  decision.  All  members  of  the  Commission  shall 
sit  upon  hearing  and  participate  in  decision.  Said  de- 
cision to  be  for  a  period  of  three  years  and  to  be  binding 
upon  all  parties  thereto. 

3.  This  tentative  agreement  shall  be  signed  by  a  com- 


110 

mittee  of  the  Employes  of  the  Traction  and  Terminal 
Company,  and  by  Mr.  Ethelbert  Stewart,  as  a  representa- 
tive of  the  United  States  Government,  and  Hon.  Samuel 
M.  Kalston,  Grovernor  of  the  State  of  Indiana,  and  the 
proper  officials  of  the  Traction  and  Terminal  Company. 

4.  That  all  men  shall  return  to  work  within  a  period 
of  twelve  (12)  hours  from  the  time  of  signing  this  agree- 
ment under  the  conditions  formerly  obtaining  in  their  em- 
ployment and  there  shall  be  no  further  interference  with 
the  operation  of  any  cars  on  the  lines  of  the  Traction  and 
Terminal  Company,  or  with  any  property  or  employe  of 
said  Company. 

5.  Said  Piublic  Service  Commission,  if  the  matter  be 
referred  to  them,  shall  take  up  and  hear  evidence  of  all 
parties  interested  on  said  grievances  as  to  wages,  hours 
and  conditions,  and  service,  and  render  decision  concern- 
ing same  within  a  period  of  thirty  (30)  days  from  the 
first  date  of  meeting.  Said  decision  in  effect  to  relate 
back  to  the  time  of  resumption  of  work. 

6.  The  above  mentioned  adjustment  and  arbitration 
shall  proceed  only  in  the  name  of  the  Committee  of  Em- 
ployes. 


Committee  of  Employes  of 
Indianapolis  Traction  and 
Terminal  Company. 


Representative  of  the  United  States  Gov't. 

Governor  of  the  State  of  Indiana. 

INDIANAPOLIS  TRACTION  AND 
TERMINAL  COMPANY. 
By President. 


Ill 

It  is  also  agreed  that  any  employe  who  asks  to  be  rein- 
stated and  is  refused  reinstatment  but  is  returned  by  de- 
cision of  the  Public  Utilities  Commission  shall  receive  pay 
from  the  date  of  first  application  for  work. 


112 

THESE  GRIEVANCES  WERE  TRIED  BY  THE  COM- 
MISSION WITH  THE  COMPANY'S  ANSWER 
TO  EACH  SEPARATELY. 


First:  Your  employes  express  a  grievance  against  the 
company  in  that  the  grievances  of  the  employes,  at  present 
and  those  that  may  develop  to  them  in  the  future  are  not 
permitted  to  be  taken  up  with  the  duly  constituted 
officials  of  the  Company  for  adjustment  by  a  committee 
recognized  as  a  duly  authorized  committee  of  the  Em- 
ployes' Association  as  chosen  or  elected  by  said  Associa- 
tion. Your  empolyes  request  that  a  condition  of  employ- 
ment be  agreed  upon  by  which  said  grievance  may  be  ad- 
justed. 

1.    As  to  the  first  grievance  presented: 

(a)  The  respondent  objects  to  the  presentation  or  C( 
sideration  of  this  grievance  for  each  of  the  followi 
reasons : 

(1)  That  the  same  is  not  within  the  scope  of  i 
contract  of  November  7,  1913,  and  is  not  one  of  t 
matters  to  be  submitted  to  arbitration. 

(2)  That  the  same  is  not  within  the  jurisdicti 
of  the  Indiana  Public  Service  Commission  under  3f 
contract  of  November  7,  1913. 

(b)  And  the  said  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  1 
said  grievance  for  the  reason  that  the  said  contra 
of  November  7,  1913,  and  this  arbitration  thereup 
constitutes  an  adjudication  and  adjustment  of 
grievances  which  have  or  may  arise  within  a  peri 
of  three  years,  and  that  this  respondent  cannot 
required  to  enter  into  any  contract  extending  beyo 
said  time  or  having  the  effect  of  abrogating  said  c( 
tract  of  November  7,  1913. 

Second:  Your  employes  express  grievance  against  the 
Company,  in  that  not  75%  of  the  runs  on  the  schedules 
are  earlies  and  lates,  completed  within  eleven  consecutive 
hours;  that  all  swing  runs  are  not  completed  within  four- 
teen consecutive  hours;  that  all  runs  working  less  than 


113 

nine  hours  do  not  pay  nine  hours  time;  that  time 
and  one-half  is  not  paid  for  all  time  worked  in  excess  of 
the  daily  schedules.  The  employes  ask  that  a  condition  of 
employment  be  established  by  the  Company  that  will  ac- 
cord to  employes  the  conditions  against  which  grievances 
are  registered  in  this  paragraph. 

2.  As  to  the  second  grievance : 
(a)  The  respondent  sates  that  it  is  not  practicable  ii 
the  operation  of  the  respondent's  road  to  furnish  th* 
service  required  to  accomodate  the  public  in  the  Cit; 
of  Indianapolis  upon  a  schedule  providing  tha 
seventy-five  per  cent,  of  the  runs  shall  be  earlies  an( 
lates,  or  that  they  shall  be  completed  within  elevei 
consecutive  hours,  or  providing  for  the  completion  o 
swing  runs  within  fourteen  consecutive  hours. 

And  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  the  demanc 
that  time  and  one-half  shall  be  paid  for  all  time  wor] 
in  excess  of  daily  schedules,  and  that  all  runs  work 
ing  less  than  nine  hours  shall  be  paid  nine  hours 
time. 


Third:  Your  employes  here  file  a  grievance  that  all 
night,  or  owl  cars  working  less  than  eight  hours  are  not 
paid  for  nine  hours  time  and  that  to  receive  nine  hours 
pay  for  such  service  they  must  work  the  full  nine  hours. 
They  ask  that  this  grievance  be  adjusted  by  providing  a 
condition  of  employment  upon  night  cars  by  which  not  to 
exceed  eight  hours  service  shall  be  required  on  night  cars, 
to  be  paid  at  the  rate  of  nine  hours  time.  Upon  this  sub- 
ject a  further  grievance  is  expressed  against  men  of  this 
service  being  required  to  work  extra  runs  or  trippers. 

3.  As  to  the  third  grievance : 
(a)  Your  respondent  says  that  there  is  no  foundatioi 
for  said  grievance;  that  in  fact  all  owl  cars  operatec 
by  said  respondent,  and  all  crews  operating  such  cars 
operate  for  more  than  eight  hours,  and  that  there  ii 
no  run  upon  owl  cars  which  operates  less  than  nim 
hours. 

And  your  respondent  further  says  that  men  runnini 


114 


owl  cars  are  not  required  to  work  extra  runs  or  trii 
pers. 


Fourth :  The  employes  here  file  a  grievance  in  that  they 
are  not  paid  thirty-two  cents  per  hour  for  work  as  motor- 
men  and  conductors  upon  city  line  cars  and  35  cents  per 
hour  upon  interurban  and  suburban  line  cars;  that  air 
brakemen  are  not  paid  45  cents  per  hour;  that  helpers  in 
the  air  department  are  not  paid  30  cents  per  hour;  that 
carpenters  are  not  paid  50  cents  per  hour ;  that  carpenters' 
helpers  are  not  paid  30  cents  per  hour;  that  in  the  paint 
shop  department  stripers  and  sign  painters  are  not  paid 
50  cents  per  hour,  surface  hands,  coaters  and  finishers 
are  not  paid  40  cents  per  hour  and  that  rough  painters 
are  not  paid  30  cents  per  hour;  that  head  pitmen  are  not 
paid  40  cents  per  hour  and  pitmen's  helpers  are  not  paid 
35  cents  per  hour;  that  armature  winders  are  not  paid  45 
cents  per  hour;  that  shop  wiremen  are  not  paid  40  cents 
per  hour;  that  car  wiremen  and  controller  men  are  not 
paid  40  cents  per  hour  and  that  apprentices  are  not  paid 
30  cents  per  hour;  that  in  the  car  cleaning  and  sweepers' 
work  the  head  car  washer  is  not  paid  35  cents  per  hour, 
helpers  are  not  paid  30  cents  per  hour,  that  flagmen  are 
not  paid  28  cents  per  hour  and  sand  dryers  are  not  paid  30 
cents  per  hour;  that  in  the  car  inspecting  department  the 
head  inspector  is  not  paid  45  cents  per  hour ;  head  pitman 
and  top  work  men  are  not  paid  35  cents  per  hour  and  helj)- 
ers  are  not  paid  30  cents  per  hour ;  that  employes  specified 
in  this  paragraph  are  not  paid  time  and  one-half  for  all 
Sunday  work  and  time  and  one-half  for  over  time  up  to 
tivelve  o'clock,  p.  m.,  and  double  time  after  12  o'clock  p.  m., 
until  7  o'clock  a.  m.  The  employes  request  an  adjustment 
of  the  grievances  enumerated  in  this  paragraph  and  ask 
that  a  condition  of  wage  rates  be  established  that  will  be 
acceptable.  The  employes  further  set  forth  as  a  grievance 
that  tinners  are  not  being  paid  40  cents  per  hour  and  tin- 
ners' helpers  are  not  receiving  30  cents  per  hour;  that 
blacksmiths  are  not  being  paid  40  cents  per  hour  for  first 
fire.  35  cents  for  second  fire  and  27V>  cents  per  hour  for 
third  fire  for  the  first  six  months  of  service  and  30  cents 
per  hour  thereafter  so  long  as  they  remain  on  the  third 


115 

fire  and  that  27^  cents  per  hour  is  not  being  paid  to  black- 
smiths' helpers ;  that  45  cents  per  hour  is  not  paid  to  steam 
fitters  and  35  cents  per  hour  is  not  being  paid  to  steam 
fitters'  helpers;  that  acetalyne  welders  are  not  paid  60 
cents  per  hour ;  that  30  cents  per  hour  is  not  paid  to  drill 
pressmen  and  40  cents  per  hour  is  not  being  paid  to  other 
employes  of  the  machine  shop  department;  that  in  the 
power  house  engineers  are  not  paid  40  cents  per  hour, 
head  firemen,  boiler  washers  and  allround  men  are  not  be- 
ing paid  35  cents  per  hour,  firemen's  helpers,  turbine  men, 
dynamo  tenders,  switchboard  men,  flue-blowers'  assistant 
and  ash  and  coal  shovelers  are  not  paid  30  cents  per  hour 
and  oilers  are  not  paid  25  cents  per  hour  and  that  the 
service  day  is  not  8  hours  only,  for  all  power  house  em- 
ployes; that  car  wiremen  of  the  shop  department  are  not 
receiving  30  cents  per  hour;  that  stock  room  men  are  not 
receiving  30  cents  per  hour;  that  trolley  bench,  bearing 
men  and  pavers  and  rammers  are  not  receiving  pay  at  35 
cents  per  hour;  that  wreck  car  helpers  are  not  paid  32 
cents  per  hour;  that  track  men  and  pavers'  helpers  are 
not  paid  30  cents  per  hour;  that  ten  hours  does  not  con- 
stitute tlie  service  day  in  the  classes  of  employment  here- 
in mentioned,  except  power  house  men;  that  time  worked 
in  excess  of  the  service  day  is  not  paid  at  the  rate  of  time 
and  one-half. 


4.     In  answer  to  the  fourth  grievance: 

(a)  Your  respondent  objects  to  any  consideration  of 
the  wages  of  interurban  and  suburban  line  men,  for 
the  reason  that  no  such  cars  are  operated  by  this  Com- 
pany. 

(b)  Your  respondent  objects  to  any  consideration  of 
the  wages  of  shop  men,  power  house  men  and  track 
men,  for  the  reason  that  it  was  not  intended  that  said 
contract  of  November  7,  1913,  should  apply  to  this 
class  of  employment,  but  it  was  intended  only  that 
it  should  apply  to  men  engaged  in  train  service. 

(c)  Your  respondent,  for  answer  to  so  much  of  said 
grievance  as  relates  to  the  wages  of  car  service  men, 
says  that  since  June  1,  1913,  and  at  all  times  there- 
after this  company    has    maintained  a    schedule    of 


116 

wages  applicable  to  men  engaged  in  car  service  upc 
the  following  basis : 

Men  employed  1  year  or  less 20  cents  per  hoi 

Men  employed  more  than  1  year 

and  less  than  2 21  cents  per  hoi 

Men  employed  more  than  2  years 

and  less  than  3   22  cents  per  hoi 

Men  employed  more  than  3  years 

and  less  than  4  23  cents  per  hoi 

Men  employed  more  than  4  years 

and  less  than  5  24  cents  per  hoi 

Men  employed  5  years  and  over. .     25  cents  per  hoi 

That  the  foregoing  rates  of  wages  are  reasonabl 
fair  and  just;  that  this  company  has  at  all  tinu 
been  able  to  procure  labor  in  this  department  fc 
the  rate  of  wage  above  stated,  and  at  all  times  has  ha 
application  for  employment  from  more  men  than 
could  employ;  that  no  previous  knowledge  or  skill  : 
required  in  the  operation  of  said  cars,  and  the  ra1 
of  wages  paid  by  this  company  is  as  high  as  other  en 
ployers  in  Indianapolis  are  paying  for  men  of  tl 
same  degree  of  skill  and  ability  and  in  avenues  of  en 
ployment  where  the  same  degree  of  (physical  an 
mental  effort  is  required;  that  this  company  has  volui 
tarily  increased  the  wages  of  its  men  engaged  in  ca 
service  from  time  to  time  during  the  past  four  yeai 
to  such  an  extent  that  the  men  in  short  terms  of  sei 
vice  have  had  an  increase  in  wages  amounting  to  abou 
eleven  per  cent.,  while  those  terms  of  service  whic 
have  been  longer  have  made  an  increase  of  practicall 
twenty  per  cent,  in  four  years,  and  that  on  and  befoi 
the  thirty-first  day  of  October,  1913,  car  service  me 
in  the  employ  of  this  company  were  satisfied  with  th 
rate  of  wage  paid  and  the  working  conditions,  an 
there  did  not  at  that  time  exist  and  had  not  existe 
for  several  years  prior  thereto  any  dispute  or  grie^ 
ances  whatever.  That  about  four  months  prior  to  th 
said  thirty-first  day  of  October,  1913,  outside  labor  aj 
itators,  seeking  to  gain  for  themselves  financial  ac 
vantage,  had  been  attempting  to  foment  dissntisfac 
tion  among  the  empolyes  of  this  company,  and  did  o 


117 

or  about  November  1,  1913,  declare  a  strike,  and 
through  violent  and  unlawful  means  drag  and  beat 
the  employes  of  this  company  from  their  cars,  intimi- 
date them,  and,  by  threats  and  personal  violence, 
prevent  them  from  operating  the  cars  of  this  com- 
pany, and  produced  a  condition  of  riot  and  anarchy 
in  the  streets  of  Indianapolis  and  the  suspension  of 
street  car  service,  such  persons  pretending  and  holding 
themselves  out  to  represent  the  employes  of  this  com- 
pany, and  claiming  that  grievances  existed,  whereas 
in  truth  and  in  fact  no  such  grievances  did  exist, 
and  the  employes  of  this  company  engaged  in  car 
service  did  not  desire  to  quit  the  company's  service, 
and  in  truth  and  in  fact  were  satisfied  with  the  rate 
of  wage  which  they  were  receiving, 
(d)  As  to  so  much  of  said  grievance  as  relates  to  the 
wages  of  barn  employes  your  respondent  says,  since 
June  1,  1913,  this  company  has  maintained  a  rate  of 
wage  for  this  class  of  employes  according  to  the  follow- 
ing schedule: 

WAGES   OF  BAEN   EMPLOYES   OF  THE   INDIAN- 
APOLIS TRACTION  AND  TERMINAL  COMPANY 

Employment  No.  Hours  Amount 

Foreman  9     84     84  per  wk.  |19.50  per  wk. 

Foremen  1  84  per  wk.  18.50  per  wk. 

Foremen    2  84  per  wk.  17.50  per  wk. 

Asst.   Foremen  2  84  per  wk.  15.00  per  wk. 

Car  Shifters  1  84  per  wk.  15.00  per  wk. 

Car  Shifters  1  84  per  wk.  .23  per  hr. 

Car  Shifters  3  84  per  wk.  .20  per  hr. 

Car  Shifters  3  84  per  wk.  .17  per  hr. 

Car  Shifters  1  84  per  wk.  .16  2-3  per  hr. 

Car  Shifters  5  84  per  wk.  .15  per  hr. 

Car  Shifters  1  84  per  wk.  .17^/2  P^^*  l^r. 

Relief  Car  Men  1  84  per  wk.  .20  per  hr. 

Relief  Car  Men  2  84  per  wk.  .171/2  per  hr. 

Sweepers   12  84  per  wk.  il5  per  hr. 

Watchmen  2  84  per  wk.  .15  per  hr. 

Janitor  2  70  per  wk.  .15  per  hr. 

Reading  Statements  1  84  per  wk.  .15  per  hr. 


118 

Employment  No.  Hours  Amount 

Insp.    (Rd.   Officers)     1  84  per  wk.    23.10  per  wl 

Insp.    (Rd.  Officers)     3  84  per  wk.    21.15  per  wk 

Insp.    (Rd.  Officers)     5  84  per  wk.     20.00  per  wk 

Ticket   Sellers   1  60  per  week  $17.50 

Ticket  Sellers  1  35  per  week     11.55 

Flagman  5  63  per  week         .12^  per  hou: 

Flagman   1  70  per  week         .15      per  houi: 

Flagman  2  84  per  week         .25       per  hou: 

Switchboys  6  66  per  week    .10  20-33  per  hou; 

That  said  rate  of  wage -is  reasonable  compensatioi 
for  the  services  rendered  and  is  and  has  been  suffi 
cient  to  enable  this  company  to  obtain  all  the  help  re 
quired,  and  to  attract  applications  from  more  per 
sons  than  could  be  given  employment,  and  is  the  cur 
rent  rate  of  wage  for  like  service  requiring  like  ap 
plication  of  skill  and  ability  in  the  City  of  Indian 
apolis,  and  is  fair,  just  and  reasonable. 
(e)  As  to  so  much  of  said  grievance  No.  4  as  relates  t< 
the  wages  of  shop  empolyes,  your  respondent  makei 
answer  that  since  June  1,  1913,  this  company  ha; 
maintained  the  followng  wage  scale  applicable  U 
this  class  of  labor: 


LIST  OF  SHOP  EMPLOYES— INDIANAPOLIS  TRAC 
TION  AND   TERMINAL  COMPANY. 

Carpenter  Department. 

1  Foreman    |25.00      per  weel 

1  Asst.   Foreman  19.50       per  weel 

1  Pattern  Maker  35       per  houi 

2  Machine  Hands 30       per  houi 

8  1st  Class  Carpenters  27^  per  houj 

30  2nd  Class  Carpenters  25  per  hou] 

2  3rd  Class  Carpenters  221/^  per  houi 

2  Carpenter's   Helpers   20  per  houi 

5  Laborers  17^  per  houi 

Total     50 


119 


Car  Inspectors. 

1  Chief  Inspector  100.00     permontb 

1  Clerk    V 40.00     per  month 

3  Insp.  (Head  Barn  Insp.) 27i/^  per  hour 

8  Insp.  (AboveSyrs.)  25      per  hour 

2  Insp.  ( 4  yrs.  to  5  yrs. )  24       per  hour 

3  Insp.  ( 3  yrs.  to  4  yrs. )  23       per  hour 

5  Insp.   (Car  Shifters)   22^/^  per  hour 

1  Insp.  (2  yrs.  to    3  yrs 22       per  hour 

5  Insp.  ( 1  yr.  to  2  yrs. )  21       per  hour 

1  Insp.  (6  mo.  to  1  yr.)  20      per  hour 

14  Insp.  ( 0  to  6  mo. )  19      per  hour 

Total     44  ( Maximum  rate  for  12  hr.  men  .221/2  per  hour 

Car  Washers  in  Paint  Shop. 

3  Car  Washers  20       per  hour 

20  Car  Washers  171/2  per  hour 

Total    23 

Paint  Shop. 

1  Foreman  25.00      per  week 

1  Asst.   Foreman  18.00       per  week 

5  1st  Class  Painters  271/2  per  hour 

12  2ncl  Class  Painters  25       per  hour 

9  3rd  Class  Painters  22i^  per  hour 

1  Oar  Washer 20      per  hour 

7  Car  Washers  171^  per  hour 

Total     36 

Repair  Shop. 

1  Foreman   115.00       per  month 

1  Clerk  13.65      per  week 

(Armature  Dept.) 

1  Foreman  18.00      per  week 

3  Winders    25       per  hour 

1  Winder   221/2  per  hour 

2  Winders    20      per  hour 

3  Banders    171/^  per  hour 

3  Tapers  15       per  hour 

1  Taper  10      per  hour 


120 


(Controller  Dept.) 

1  Foreman _ 16.50      per  weel 

2  Controller  repairmen 

(1st  Class)  25      per  hour 

(Wiring  Dept.) 

1     Foreman  _ 16.50      per  week 

1    Wireman  (1st  Class)  25      per  hour 

1     Wireman  (2nd  Class)  22i/^  per  hour 

3  Wireman     Helpers      (1st 

Class) .20      per  hour 

3     Wireman     Helpers     (2nd 

Class)    19      per  hour 

1     Wireman     Helper      (3rd 

Class)    171/^  per  hour 

(Machine  Dept.) 

1]     Section   Foreman  19.50      per  week 

3  Machinists  (2nd  Class)  ...       .271/^  per  hour 

3  Machinists  (3rd  Class)  ...       .25      per  hour 
1  Machinist     Helper      (1st 

Class)    221/^  per  hour' 

4  Machinist     Helpers    (2nd 

Class)    20       per  hour 

1  Tool  Room  Clerk 173^  per  hour 

2  Machinist  Helpers 17^4  per  hour 

(Tin  Dept.) 

1     Tinner  (1st  Class)  30      per  hour 

1     Tinner  Helper 22i/^  per  hour 

1     Tinner  Helper 17%  per  hour 

(Blacksmith  Dept.) 

1  Section  Foreman 35      per  hour 

1  1st  Class  Blacksmith 30      per  hour 

1  1st  Class  Helper 22^^^  per  hour 

3  Experienced  Helpers 20      per  hour 


Total     53 


121 

(Truck  Dept.) 

1  Section  Foreman  27l^  per  hour 

5  Pit  Men  (Above  4  yrs.)  25  per  hour 

1  Pit  Man  (3  yrs.  to  4  yrs.) 24  per  hour 

1  Pit  Man  (2  yrs.  to  3  yrs.)         .23  per  hour 

1  Pit  Man  ( 1  yr.  to  2  yrs. ) 22  per  hour 

1  Pit    Man    Helper     (Above 

1  yr.)    20  per  hour 

9  Pit  Men  (0  to  1  yr.)  19  per  hour 

(Air  Brake  Dept.) 

1     Section   Foreman  271/2  per  hour 

1  Repairman  (1st  Class)  25      per  hour 

2  Repairman      Helpers      (1st 

Class)    20      per  hour 

(Piping  Dept.) 

1     Section  Foreman  271/^  per  hour 

1     Pipe  Helper  (1st  Class) 20      per  hour 

1    Pipe  Helper  (2nd  Class) 19      per  hour 

( Miscellaneous. ) 

1     Welder    271/2  per  hour 

1     Trolley  Man  20       per  hour 

4     Laborers I71/2  per  hour 

1     Laborer  15       per  hour 

Total     33 

Time  and  half  for  overtime.  Straight  time  for  Sun- 
days or  Holidays.  Day  to  be  10  hours  except  Satur- 
day which  is  9  hours  but  paid  for  10  hours. 

The  scale  for  car  washers  and  inspectors  went  into 
effect  November  1st,  1913. 

That  said  rate  of  wage  has  been  sufficient  to  pro- 
cure all  the  labor  required  in  this  branch  of  this 
company's  affairs  and  to  attract  applications  from  a 
large  number  of  persons  who  could  not  be  employed, 
and  is  as  high  rate  of  wage  as  is  ordinarily  paid  in  the 
City  of  Indianapolis  for  serAlce  requiring  the  same 
knowledge,  skill,  ability  and  application  and  is  fair, 
just  and  reasonable. 


122 

(f)  As  to  so  much  of  said  grievance  No.  4  as  relates  1 
the  wages  of  power  station  employes,  this  compaD 
makes  answer  that  it  has  since  June  1,  1913„  mai] 
tained  the  following  scale  of  wages: 

POWER  STATION  SCALE  OF  WAGES. 

No.       Title  No.  of  Hours  Amount 

1  Chief       Operating 

EngT 10  hrs.  per  day  |28.85       per  w! 

2  Engineers    11  &  13  hrs.  per  day        .25       per  hi 

2     Turbine  Men 12  hrs.  per  day        .20       per  hi 

1  Oiler      12  hrs.  per  day  .20  per  hi 

2  Oilers      12  hrs.  per  day  .19  per  hi 

2     W^ater  Tenders  11  &  13  hrs.  per  day  .25  per  hi 

6     Firemen      11  &  13  hrs.  per  day  .20  per  hi 

5  Firemen  &  Hlprs.  11  &  13  hrs.  per  day  .18  per  hi 

1  Firemen  &  Hlprs.  11           hrs.  per  day  .20  per  hi 

1     Boiler  Washer  12  hrs.  per  day  .221^  per  hi 

1     Boiler  Washer  11  hrs.  per  day  .22  per  hi 

1     Operator       11  hrs.  per  day  .22  per  hi 

1     Operator  13  hrs.  per  day  .20  per  hi 

1  Operator       11  hrs.  per  day        .181      per  hi 

2  Coal  Men  12  hrs.  per  day        .171/2  per  hi 

1  Trolleyman     11  hrs.  per  day        .18      per  hi 

3  Laborers     11  hrs.  per  day        .18      per  hi 

2  Watchman 12  hrs.  per  day  .20  per  hi 

1  Machinist    as  needed  .30  per  hi 

1  Carpenter  10  hrs.  per  day  .25  per  hi 

1  Steam  Shovel 

Man   12  hrs.  per  day        .22       per  h] 

Day  men  work  11  hours  a  day.  Night  men  woi 
13  hours  a  day.  Overtime  on  same  basis  except  m 
chinists  and  carpenters  who  are  allowed  time  ar 
one-half  for  overtime. 

That  said  wage  scale  has  been  sufficient  to  attra 
more  applicants  than  could  be  given  employment  ai 
to  procure  all  the  labor  in  this  department  which  th 
company  required  and  is  as  high  as  is  generally  pa: 
in  the  City  of  Indianapolis  for  w^ork  requiring  tl 
same  knowledge,  skill,  ability  and  application,  and 
fair,  reasonable  and  just. 


123 


(g)  As  to  so  much  of  said  grievance  No.  4  as  relates  to 
the  wages  paid  in  the  track  department  of  this  com- 
pany, your  respondent  makes  answer  that  since  June 
1, 1913,  it  has  maintained  the  following  scale  of  wages 
in  this  department : 


SCALE  OF  WAGES  PAID    TRACK  DEPARTMENT 

EMPLOYES. 

703  Traction  Bldg. 

Engineering  Office  (I.  T.  &  T.  and  T.  H.  I.  &  E.)  Joint. 

Supervising  Engineer  1  $150.00  per  mo. 

Tie  Inspector  &  Engr 1  125.00  per  mo. 

Office  Asst.  Engr 1  105.00  per  mo. 

Asst.  Engr 1  75.00  per  mo. 

Rodman   1  .20  per  hr. 

Rodman  1  .171^  per  hr. 


Track^Clerical    (West  and  Pratt) 

Employment    No.  Men        Rates      Hours 

Bookkeeper      1  $85.00  per  mo.  60 

Store  &  Time  Keeper  1     16.50  per  wk.  60 

Time  Keepers  2     12.00  per  wk.  60 

Time     Keepers      (as 

required)   3      10.50  per  wk.  60 

Yard  Clerks    1         .25  per  hr.  70  Belt  Yards 

Yard  Clerks  1        .20  per  hr.  70  Gravel  Pit 

Emergency   Men   1         .20  per  hr.  70  West  &  Pratt 

Emergency  Men  1     .171/^  per  hr.  70 

Work  Train  Service. 

Train  Master  1         .30  per  hr.  66 

Motorman      6         .25  per  hr.  66 

Motorman       2         .23  per  hr.  66 

Motorman        1         .22  per  hr.  66 

Motorman      2         .21  per  hr.  66 

Motorman       1         .20  per  hr.  66 

Trolley  Tenders 12     .17l^  per  hr.  66 


124 


Construction. 


Supervtisor       1     95.00  per  mo. 

1st  Class  Foremen  ...  2         .30  per  hr.  60 

2nd  Class  Foremen     5         .25  per  hr.  60 

3rd  Class    Foremen     2    .221/2  per  hr.  60  (Olrd.  Men; 

Bending  Foremen  1     .271/2  per  hr-  60 

1st  Class  Laborers 3          .20  per  hr.  60 

2nd    Class    laborers 

200    more    or    less         .ITI/2  per  hr.  60 

Maintenance. 

General  Foreman  1     20.00  per  wk. 

Machine  Operators  ...  2        .25  per  hr.  60  ArcWeldei 

and  Grindc 

Machine  Helpers 3         .20  per  hr.  60 

2nd  Class  Labor  (above) 

Curve  Cleaners  13     10.60  per  wk.  70 

Watchman  Day  1         .20  per  hr.  70 

Watchman  Night  2     .171/2  per  hr.  70 

Watchman  Night  15     10.00  per  wk.  70 

Water       Boys       (as 

required)      07l^  per  hr.  60 

Paving  Department. 

Superintendent     1     25.00  per  wk.  60 

1st  Class  Foreman  ...  1         .30  per  hr.  60 

2nd  Class  Foreman     3         .25  per  hr.  60 

3rd  Class  Foreman     1     .221/^  per  hr.  60 

Paving  Labor 16          .20  per  hr.  60 

Ordinary   Work    (as 

required)        180 

(more  or  less)    171/^  per  hr.  60 

Kettlemen  2     .I71/2  per  hr.  66 

Machine  &  Tool  Department. 

General  Foreman  1  100.00  per  mo.  1st  Class  Engr. 

Blacksmith       1         .35  per  hr.  60 

Blacksmith       1         .30  per  hr.  60 

Helpers       2         .20  per  hr.  60 


125 

Machine  &  Tool  Department. 

Drill  Runners  3         .20  per  hr.     60  Sp.  &  St,  Wk. 

Hoisting  Engrs 2  .30  per  hr.      60   (Boat,Thew, 

Steam  Boiler) 

Crane  Men      2     .271/2  per  hr.      60  (Thew,    

Browning) 
Crane  Man 1         .25  per  hr.      60  (No.  114  Mix- 
er Crane) 
Car  Greaser  1         .20  per  hr.      70 

That  this  wage  scale  has  been  sufficient  to  procure 
all  of  the  labor  required  in  this  department  and  to 
attract  a  large  number  of  applications  in  excess  of 
the  company's  requirements,  and  the  wages  paid  are 
as  high  as  are  paid  in  Indianapolis  for  the  same  de- 
gree of  service  and  are  fair,  reasonable  and  just, 
(h)  And  generally  as  to  the  whole  of  said  grievance 
No.  4,  your  respondent  says  that  it  declines  to  accede 
to  the  demands  made  in  said  grievance  or  to  increase 
the  rate  of  wage  to  be  paid  in  any  of  said  employ- 
ments or  departments  of  employment,  and  contends 
that  it  cannot  be  required  as  the  result  of  a  strike  or 
by  means  of  arbitration  to  pay  a  higher  wage  rate 
than  is  necessary  to  procure  the  labor  required  in  its 
business  in  the  market  in  which  it  gets  its  labor,  and 
that  any  and  all  attempts  through  the  medium  of 
strikes,  resorts  to  rioting,  lawlessness  and  the  appli- 
cation of  force  to  the  employes  of  this  company  and 
those  desiring  to  seek  employment  from  it  to  arbi- 
trarily increase  the  price  of  labor  and  thereby  compel 
this  company  to  pay  an  artificial  wage  greater  thiv\ 
is  necessary  to  procure  its  labor  in  the  open  market 
are  unlawful  and  deprive  your  respondent  of  the 
equal  protection  of  the  laws,  in  violation  of  the  guaran- 
tees contained  in  the  constitution  of  the  United 
States,  and  should  not  receive  recognition  from  this 
board  of  arbitration  in  making  its  award. 

Fifth :  Your  employes  submit  as  a  grievance  that  there 
are  attached  additional  trips  to  the  service  of  motormen 
and  conductors  to  Sunday  and  Holiday  schedules ;  that  all 
runs  working  less  time  on  Sundays  and  Holidays  than  the 


126 

time  called  for  on  week  day  seliedules  is  not  paid  week  day 
schedule  time;  that  men  do  not  have  reasonable  time  of 
not  less  than  twenty  minutes  nor  more  than  forty  minutes 
within  which  to  eat  meals  and  where  cars  are  blocked  or 
late  no  provision  is  made  for  men  to  eat,  and  it  is  not  the 
duty  of  dispatchers,  local  superintendents,  road  masters 
and  starters  to  see  that  such  a  provision  exists  and  is  not 
carried  out  at  all  times. 

5.  As  to  the  fifth  grievance: 
(a)  Your  respondent  says  that  there  is  no  foundation 
in  fact  for  said  fifth  grievance.  That  regular  motor- 
men  and  conductors  do  not  have  additional  trips  ad- 
ded to  their  runs  for  the  Sunday  or  Holiday  schedules. 
That  extra  men  are  employed  to  take  care  of  the  ex- 
tra work  due  to  Sunday  and  Holiday  schedules. 

Your  respondent  further  says  that  a  reasonable 
time  of  not  less  than  twenty  minutes  is  and  has  been 
at  all  times  allowed  to  motormen  and  conductors 
within  which  to  eat  their  meals  and  that  the  company 
does  pay  and  has  been  paying  for  the  time  so  occu- 
pied. 

That  it  is  not  practicable  that  it  should  be  made  the 
duty  of  dispatchers,  local  superintendents,  road  mas- 
ters or  starters  to  see  that  the  men  have  provision 
made  for  meal  time  when  the  cars  are  blocked  or 
late  for  under  such  circumstances  the  proper  dis- 
charge of  the  duty  of  this  company  to  the  public,  re- 
quires that  such  dispatchers  and  other  officials  shall 
give  their  attention  to  the  movement  of  cars  and  res- 
toration of  traffic  to  its  normal  schedules. 

And  your  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  the  de- 
mands that  runs  working  less  time  on  Sundays  and 
Holidays  than  the  time  called  for  on  week  day  sched- 
ules shall  be  paid  according  to  week  day  schedule 
time. 

Sixth :  Your  employes  submit  as  a  grievance  that  provi- 
sions and  a  condition  of  employment  does  not  exist  to 
provide  that  reporting  time  shall  be  but  five  minutes  at  all 
car  houses,  that  motormen  and  conductors,  missing  their 
regular  runs  shall  serve  but  two  days  on  the  extra  list; 


127 

that  where  ears  are  delayed  by  accidents  or  blockades 
so  that  men  riding  upon  them  cannot  reach  their  place  of 
reporting  on  time,  no  miss  shall  be  charged  against  them 
and  that  they  shall  loose  their  run  for  that  day  only  and 
then  only  in  the  event  that  they  reach  the  place  for  re- 
porting not  in  time  to  take  their  run  out  on  schedule. 

6.  As  to  the  sixth  grievance : 
(a)  Your  respondent  is  willing  to  experiment  with  the 
requirements  that  men  shall  only  be  required  to  report 
five  minutes  before  taking  their  runs  at  the  car 
houses.  It  is  the  universal  custom  in  all  well  regu- 
lated street  railways  to  require  men  to  report  ten 
minutes  before  time  for  taking  their  runs  in  order 
that  the  barn  foreman  may  reassign  the  work  where 
men  fail  to  report,  without  disturbing  the  schedules 
If  experience  shows  tliat  it  is  practicable  to  require 
the  men  to  report  five  minutes  before  taking  their 
runs,  your  respondent  is  willing  to  make  that  rule 
permanent;  otherwise  reserves  the  right  to  change 
the  present  system. 

Your  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  a  hard  and 
fast  rule  that  two  days  only  on  the  extra  list  shall 
be  the  penalty  for  missing  the  runs,  but  reserves  the 
right  to  govern  the  penalty  according  to  the  character 
of  the  offense  and  reason  which  may  exist  for  having 
failed  to  report  in  time  to  take  out  any  particular  run. 

Your  respondent  accedes  to  the  proposition  that 
men  who  are  delayed  without  their  fault  by  reason  of 
blockades  on  the  line,  and  thereby  prevented  from 
taking  out  their  runs  shall  not  be  penalized  further 
than  to  lose  their  run  for  that  day  only.  This  is  and 
has  been  the  custom  at  all  times  in  the  carrying  on 
of  the  respondent's  business,  and  no  foundation  exists 
for  grievance  in  this  respect. 

Seventh :  The  employes  file  as  a  grievance  that  a  condi- 
tion of  employment  does  not  exist  to  provide  that  the 
working  board  for  the  following  day  shall  be  marked  up 
not  later  than  four  o'clock  P.  M.,  each  day;  a  list  of  extra 
men  shall  be  made  up  at  the  same  time  and  so  placed  that 
it  shall  be  in  plain  sight  at  all  times,  that  extra  men 


128 

can  see  their  standing  for  work  and  when  an  extra  man 
gets  out  on  a  run  he  shall  he  checked  on  the  list  accord- 
ingly, or  if  he  misses  he  shall  be  so  marked. 

7.  As  to  the  seventh  grievance : 
(a)  Your  respondent  says  that  there  is  no  foundation 
for  said  seventh,  grievance;  that  the  company  main- 
tains a  working  board ;  that  wherever  practicable  it  is 
marked  up  by  the  middle  of  the  afternoon;  that  the 
list  of  extra  men  is  made  and  placed  in  plain  sight  so 
that  extra  men  can  see  their  standing  for  work,  and 
that  they  are  marked  when  they  get  a  run  or  miss. 


Eighth:  Your  employes  submit  as  a  grievance  that  a 
condition  of  employment  does  not  exist  to  provide  thai 
there  shall  be  placed  in  the  office  of  each  car  house  of  the 
respective  lines  an  open  book  in  which  the  men  can  reg- 
ister the  particular  day  or  days  on  which  they  want  to 
get  off,  the  men  so  registered  shall  have  first  preference 
except  in  case  of  committees  or  officers  who  mark  off  on 
business  of  the  Employes  Association,  such  committee  and 
officers  in  such  case  to  have  preference;  persons  so  reg 
istering  must  sign  in  ink  or  otherwise  loose  their  turn ; 
said  book  to  be  dated  to  provide  a  privilege  of  asking  off 
seven  days  ahead  of  any  day  leave  of  absence  is  desired ; 
that  collectors  of  dues  of  the  Employes  Association,  if  they 
so  desire,  shall  be  marked  off  pay  days  by  the  dispatcher. 

8.  As  to  the  eighth  grievance: 
(a)  Your  respondent  says  that  there  is  no  foundation^ 
in  fact  for  said  eighth  grievance.  That  the  station  fore- 
man in  the  company's  various  bams  keeps  a  record 
of  the  men  who  ask  off  and  of  the  day  or  days  upon 
which  they  wish  to  get  off.  That  it  is  not  practicable 
that  employes  desiring  to  get  off  shall  be  required  to 
register  in  ink,  for  in  many  cases  of  sickness  or  other 
like  reason  such  requests  are  made  and  must  be  made 
without  the  actual  presence  of  the  employe  at  the 
bam. 


129 

That  it  is  not  practicable  to  require  men  to  ask  off 
seven  days  in  advance. 

Your  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  the  demand 
that  a  class  of  employes  shall  have  a  preferiiuce  in 
being  excused  from  work,  but  says  that  it  is  necessary, 
in  order  to  maintain  the  service,  that  the  barn  fore- 
man should  have  a  reasonable  discretion  in  excusing 
or  refusing  to  excuse  men  from  work  on  any  partic- 
ular day. 

Ninth:  Your  employes  submit  as  a  grievance  that  a 
condition  of  employment  does  not  exist  in  agreement  by 
and  between  the  Employes  Association  and  the  employing 
Company  which  provides  that  any  employe  elected  or  ap- 
pointed to  any  office  in  the  Employes  Association  shall 
upon  his  retirement  from  said  association  office,  be  re- 
instated in  his  former  position  without  impairment  of 
seniority  rights  in  the  employment  of  the  Company. 

9.     As  to  the  ninth  grievance: 

(a)  Your  respondent  objects  to  any  consideration  of  the 
ninth  grievance,  upon  the  ground  (1)  that  it  is  not 
within  the  terms  of  the  contract  of  November  7,  1913, 
and  (2)  that  it  is  not  within  the  jurisdiction  of  the 
commission  under  said  contract  of  November  7,  1913. 
(b)  Your  respondent  dclines  to  accede  to  the  said 
ninth  grievance  upon  the  ground  that  the  said  con- 
tract of  November  7,  1913,  together  with  the  decision 
of  this  commission  upon  this  arbitration  settles  all 
matters  of  condition  of  employment  for  a  period  of 
three  years,  and  that  this  respondent  cannot  be  re- 
quired to  enter  into  any  contract  with  anybody  other 
than  said  contract  of  November  7,  1913. 

(c)  Your  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  said  grievance 
for  the  reason  that  it  objects  to  any  arrangement 
which  will  under  any  circumstances  limit  its  man- 
aging officers  in  connection  with  the  employment  or 
the  reinstatement  of  any  class  of  employes. 

Tenth :    The  employes  submit  as  a  grievance  that  a  con- 
dition of  employment  does  not  exist  between  the  Company 


130 

and  the  Employes  Association  as  a  matter  of  agreement 
that  all  cars  shall  be  properly  cleaned  and  equipped  by  barn 
men  before  being  placed  in  charge  of  motormen  and  con- 
ductors, and  that  said  condition  of  employment  shall  apply 
to  car  stoves. 

10.  As  to  the  tenth  grievance : 

(a)  Your  respondent  states  that  there  is  no  founda- 
tion in  fact  for  said  grievance.  That  all  cars  are  and 
have  been  at  all  times  cleaned  and  equipped  by  barn 
men  before  being  placed  in  charge  of  motormen  and 
conductors,  and  that  this  fully  applies  to  the  car 
stoves,  and  car  service  men  are  not  and  have  not  been 
required  to  do  any  of  that  work. 

Eleventh :  Your  employes  file  as  a  grievance  that  extra 
men  reporting  at  regular  reporting  time  and  receiving  no 
work  are  not  paid  less  than  $1.50  and  that  such  extra  men 
are  not  permitted  to  complete  their  report  between  4:45 
o'clock  A.  M.,  and  5  o'clock  P.  M.,  with  meal  time  allowed; 
that  there  exists  no  condition  of  agreement  to  provide  that 
the  extra  board  at  the  several  barns  shall  be  a  revolving 
list  marked  up  to  provide  that  the  first  man  in  shall  be 
the  first  man  out  and  that  extra  men  working  after  twelve 
o'clock,  midnight,  shall  not  be  required  to  report  before 
9  A.  M.,  the  following  day,  and  be  entitled  to  $1.50  per 
day  in  case  of  days  upon  which  reports  are  made  at  9 
A.  M.  in  the  event  that  no  work  is  performed  that  day; 
that  men  missing  the  extra  list  shall  be  dealt  with  by  the 
Station  Master  under  discipline  not  to  receive  loss  of 
place  on  the  extra  list  for  the  day  of  miss  only. 

11.  As  to  the  eleventh  grievance: 

(a)  Your  respondent  is  not  willing  to  accede  to  the 
demand  that  every  extra  man  shall  be  paid  not  less 
than  one  and  one-half  dollars  for  each  and  every  day 
Avhen  he  receives  no  work.  Your  respondent  states 
that  there  is  no  foundation  in  fact  for  this  grievance, 
for  the  reason  that  extra  men  average  as  much 
throughout  the  month  as  the  minimum  wage  demand- 
ed. 

That  there  is  no  foundation  in  fact  for  the  griev- 


131 


ance  that  extra  men  not  receiving  work  are  held 
longer  than  necessary  in  any  one  day ;  that  ordinarily 
they  are  excused  by  four  o'clock  in  the  afternoon. 

That  there  is  no  foundation  for  the  grievance  that 
the  extra  board  does  not  provide  that  the  first  man  in 
shall  be  the  first  man  out,  as  this  is  and  always  has 
been  the  custom  in  carryng  out  the  respondent's  busi- 
ness. 

Your  respondent  concedes  and  is  willing  to  put  in- 
to practicable  operation  directions  at  its  barns,  where- 
by extra  men  working  after  twelve  o'clock  midnight, 
shall  not  be  required  to  report  before  nine  o'clock 
A.  M.,  the  following  day. 

Your  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  any  arrange- 
ments whereby  the  station  master  at  any  particular 
barn  shall  be  limited  in  his  discretion  in  imposing 
discipline  upon  men  who  miss  the  extra  list,  but  con- 
tends that  the  station  master  must  necessarily  have 
the  right  to  take  the  facts  and  circumstances  into  con- 
sideration in  deciding  what  penalties  should  be  im- 
posed for  being  absent  without  leave. 


Twelfth:  The  employes  submit  a  grievance  in  that 
books  of  tickets  or  passes  will  not  be  issued  to  all  employes 
permitting  them  free  transportation  as  a  condition  of 
employment  agreed  upon  by  and  between  the  Employes 
Association  and  the  Company,  such  free  transportation 
to  prevail  on  all  lines  owned  or  operated  by  the  Company. 

12.  As  to  the  twelfth  grievance: 
(a)  Your  respondent  shows  that  it  is  and  has  been  the 
custom  for  a  long  time  on  its  lines  to  issue  to  its  em- 
ployes free  employe's  tickets,  entitling  them  to  ride 
from  their  homes  to  their  work  and  from  their  work 
to  their  homes,  but  further  than  this  such  free  trans- 
portation has  never  been  the  custom  in  Indianapolis. 
That  in  the  practical  operation  of  this  custom  grave 
abuses  have  always  existed  and  do  now  exist  in  Indian- 
apolis on  account  of  the  manner  in  which  such  em- 
ploye's tickets  are  transferred,  held  back,  used  by 
other  persons  and  otherwise  misapplied. 


132 

Thirteenth :  The  employes  submit  a  grievance  in  that  a 
condition  of  employment  does  not  exist  to  provide  that 
men  holding  their  seniority  as  conductors  shall  not  be  re- 
quired to  work  as  motormen,  and  vice  versa,  unless  they 
so  desire. 

13.  As  to  the  thirteenth  grievance : 

(a)  Your  respondent  says  that  there  is  no  foundation 
in  fact  for  said  grievance.  That,  except  in  cases  of 
emergency,  conductors  are  not  required  to  work  as 
motormen  and  motormen  are  not  required  to  work  as 
conductors,  but  your  respondent  further  shows  that 
an  invariable  rule  in  this  respect  would  at  times  im- 
pair the  service. 

Fourteenth :  Your  employes  submit  a  grievance  in  that 
there  does  not  exist  a  condition  of  employment  by  which 
is  provided  an  agreement  between  the  association  of  em- 
ployes and  the  employing  company  to  provide  that  all  em- 
ployes who  are  now  members  of  the  association  shall 
remain  members  in  good  standing  during  their  term  of 
service  in  the  employ  of  the  Company  and  that  men  enter- 
ing the  service  of  the  employing  Company  shall  within 
thirty  days,  if  proven  satisfactory  to  both  the  Employes 
Association  and  the  Company,  become  members  and  re- 
main members  of  the  association  so  long  as  they  continue 
in  the  service  of  the  Company  or  any  other  Company  suc- 
ceeding in  the  operation  of  the  lines  now  owned  and 
operated  by  the  recognized  operating  company  in  the  em- 
ployment of  which  are  the  employes  here  represented; 
and  that  this  provision  contained  in  this  paragraph  shall 
apply  to  all  motormen  and  conductors  operating  into  and 
within  Indianapolis,  and  employes  in  and  connected  with 
all  departments  of  the  operation  and  maintenance  of  Street 
and  Electric  Railway  Service  into  and  within  Indian- 
apolis. 

14.  As  to  the  fourteenth  grievance: 

(a)  Your  respondent  objects  to  the  consideration  of 
this  grievance  for  the  reason  (1)  that  it  is  not  with- 
in the  scope  of  the  contract  of  November  7,  1913,  and 


133 

(2)  it  is  not  within  the  jurisdiction  of  the  arbitrators 
under  said  contract  of  November  7,  1913. 

(b)  Your  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  said  four- 
teenth grievance  upon  the  ground  that  the  said  con- 
tract of  November  7,  1913,  together  with  the  decision 
of  this  board  of  arbitration  constitutes  an  adjudica- 
tion of  all  matters  arising  within  the  next  three  years, 
and  that  the  jurisdiction  of  this  board  does  not  ex- 
tend beyond  three  years,  and  that  this  resplendent 
cannot  be  required  to  enter  into  any  contract,  and 
especially  a  contract  which  would  impair  the  force 
and  validity  of  said  contract  of  November  7,  1913, 
or  the  decision  of  this  Board  of  Arbitration. 

(c)  Your  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  said  fourteenth 
grievance  upon  the  further  ground  that  it  would 
impair  the  efficiency  of  the  service;  that  it  wo(dd  take 
away  from  your  respondent  the  freedom  of  action  to 
which  it  is  entitled  under  the  law,  and  would  limit  the 
scope  to  which  it  might  impose  discipline  and  that 
such  a  contract  is  against  public  policy. 


Fifteenth:  Your  employes  submit  as  a  grievance  that 
men  required  to  report  at  reporting  points  before  be- 
ginning work  and  are  compelled  to  go  to  another  point  to 
take  their  cars  shall  be  paid  not  for  the  time  required  to  go 
and  come  at  the  regular  rate  of  wages  and  where  men  are 
relieved  at  Terminals  and  required  to  return  to  stations 
to  make  reports  and  deposit  receipts  are  not  paid  for  such 
time  and  where  shop  or  barn  men  are  required  to  work 
at  points  other  than  the  barn  or  shop  where  they  are  reg- 
ularly employed  are  not  paid  for  time  going  to  and  from 
their  respective  barns  or  shops  and  the  point  of  employ- 
ment. 

15.  As  to  the  fifteenth  grievance: 
(a)  Your  respondent  accedes  and  is  willing  to  put  in 
effect  a  change  in  its  payment  of  wage  scales  v»'h^reby 
conductors  who  are  relieved  from  their  cars  take  their 
cars  at  points  other  than  their  barns  shall  be  paid  for 
the  time  necessarily  required  in  transportation  from 
the  barn  to  the  place  of  taking  or  leaving  the  car,  as 


134 

the  case  may  be,  computed  to  the  nearest  five  minutes. 
As  to  barn  and  shop  men,  your  respondent  answers 
that  there  is  no  foundation  for  the  grievance,  as  in 
all  cases  they  are  paid  from  the  time  they  leave  or  ar- 
rive at  the  barn  or  shop  and  such  has  been  the  custom 
on  the  part  of  this  respondent  for  a  long  time. 

Sixteenth:  The  employes  submit  as  a  grievance  that 
motormen  and  conductors  are  not  paid  twenty-five  cents 
extra  per  day  while  instructing  students. 

16,  As  to  the  sixteenth  grievance : 

(a)  Your  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  the  demand 
that  extra  wages  shall  be  paid  motormen  or  con- 
ductors while  instructing  students. 

Sev^enteenth :  Your  employes  here  file  as  a  grievance 
that  preference  for  snow-plow  and  sweeper  work  is  not 
given  to  motormen  and  conductors  and  such  work  is  not 
paid  at  the  rate  of  double  time;  that  men  held  or  called 
for  snow  plow  or  sweeper  work  and  receiving  no  work 
are  not  paid  for  the  time  from  the  time  so  called  until 
relieved  and  when  men  are  taken  from  their  regular  work 
for  this  service  they  receive  less  than  their  regular  service 
day  pays  and  returned  to  their  regular  work  that  day; 
that  meals  are  not  allowed  all  men  doing  this  class  of 
work,  such  meals  at  the  expense  of  the  Company. 

17.  As  to  the  seventeenth  grievance: 

(a)  Your  respondent  says  that  there  is  no  foundation 
in  fact  for  the  grievance  as  to  working  conditions 
specified.  Motormen  and  conductors  are  in  all  cases 
employed  for  snow  plow  and  sweeper  work.  Such 
employes,  when  completing  this  work  in  less  time  than 
is  employed  in  their  regular  service,  do  and  have  re- 
ceived full  pay  for  the  number  of  hours  composing 
their  regular  runs  for  that  day.  The  time  for  meals 
is  allowed  at  the  expense  of  the  company,  and  the 
meals  are  furnished  by  the  company. 

The  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  the  demand 
that  double  pay  should  be  allowed  for  snow  plow  or 


135 

sweeper  work,  but  that  allowing  time  for  the  regular 
run  of  the  employe  for  that  day  is  equitable,  and  that 
in  nearly  all  cases  the  work  of  a  snow  plow  or  sweeper 
is  completed  in  much  less  time  than  is  occupied  by  his 
regular  run. 

Eighteenth :  Your  employes  submit  as  a  grievance  that 
a  condition  of  employment  does  not  exist  as  a  condition 
of  agreement  between  the  employing  Company  and  the 
Employes  Association  providing  that  the  superintendent 
shall  on  notice,  Mondays,  Wednesdays  and  Fridays  of 
each  week  at  ten  o'clock  A.  M.  give  a  fair  and  impartial 
hearing  to  suspended  or  discharged  employes  and  in  case 
cause  for  dismissal  is  found  to  be  insufficient  to  warrant 
dismissal  and  cause  for  suspension  is  found  to  be  insuf- 
ficient to  warrant  suspension,  such  employes  shall  be  re- 
instated and  paid  for  time  lost  at  his  regular  rate  of  wages. 

18.  As  to  the  eighteenth  grievance : 
(a)  The  respondent  says  that  there  is  no  foundation  in 
fact  for  this  grievance,  as  the  general  superintendent 
is  and  has  been  in  the  habit,  and  it  is  his  custom  at 
his  office  on  every  day  in  the  week,  to  meet  with  sus- 
pended or  otherwise  disciplined  employes  and  to  give 
them  a  fair  and  impartial  hearing,  and  to  deal  with 
their  cases  according  to  their  merits. 


Nineteenth :  Your  employes  file  as  a  grievance  that  a 
condition  of  employment  does  not  exist  as  a  matter  of 
agreement  between  the  Company  and  the  Employes  As- 
sociation to  provide  that  the  president,  at  ten  o'clock  A. 
M.  on  the  first  and  third  Tuesdays  of  each  month  will  hear 
individual  cases  of  grievance  appealed  from  the  decision 
of  the  general  superintendent;  a  memorandum  of  such 
cases  and  testimony  bearing  thereon  must  be  submitted 
in  the  forenoon  of  the  preceding  Saturday  and  the  request 
of  either  party,  the  Company  or  Association,  the  individual 
or  individuals  involved,  will  be  notified  to  appear  at  ihe 
hearing  in  person ;  that  records  kept  by  the  company  for 
the  violation  of  rules  and  record  of  the  defense  and  offense 
shall  be  made  a  matter  of  record  available  in  all  cases. 


136 

19.  As  to  the  nineteenth  grievance : 

(a)  Your  respondent  says  that  there  is  no  foundation 
in  fact  for  this  grievance.  That  by  orders  and  direc- 
tions of  the  president,  issued  in  1901,  the  employes 
have  at  all  times  had  the  right  to  appeal  to  the 
president  from  the  decision  of  the  general  superin- 
tendent, and  to  be  heard  in  person  at  the  office  of  the 
president. 

That  it  is  impractical  that  the  president  should 
have  a  fixed  engagement  for  the  hearing  of  such  ap- 
peals, or  that  there  should  be  any  fixed  method  of  sub- 
mitting the  facts  relative  to  such  appeals. 

That  the  company  does  keep  and  has  for  a  long 
time  kept  a  record  of  the  violation  of  rules  and  tres- 
pass of  its  employes,  and  the  character  of  the  dis- 
cipline imposed  in  each  particular  case. 

Twentieth :  The  employes  submit  a  grievance  in  that 
all  motormen  and  conductors  are  not  listed  respectively 
as  motormen  and  conductors  in  accordance  with  their 
seniority  of  service  at  the  car  house  where  they  report 
and  that  no  condition  of  employment  exists  to  provide  that 
where  a  barn  or  parts  of  barn  are  consolidated  with 
another,  the  men  affected  shall  be  consolidated  and  hold 
their  seniority  rights  accordingly. 

20.  As  to  the  twentieth  grievance : 

(a)  Your  respondent  says  there  is  no  foundation  in  fact 
for  this  grievance.  That  the  seniority  of  the  records 
of  motormen  and  conductors  are  kept  at  the  car  houses 
where  they  report,  and  that  they  are  listed  according 
to  such  seniority,  and  that  there  are  no  barns  or  parts' 
of  barns  consolidated  or  about  to  be  consolidated  or 
which  have  recently  consolidated. 

Twenty-first :  Your  employes  submit  as  a  grievance  that 
in  the  assignment  of  runs  motormen  and  conductors  do 
not  have  the  privilege  of  choosing  or  picking  runs  in  ac- 
cordance with  seniority  in  service  as  based  upon  contin- 
uous service  at  the  car  house  where  they  report;  that 
officials  at  the  various  barns  are  not  required  to  place  a 


137 

list  showing  the  run  numbers  and  hours  and  minutes 
each  run  works,  such  list  not  being  so  placed  four  days 
ahead  of  the  third  month,  starting  from  December  1,  1913, 
such  list  not  containing  route  numbers  for  which  runs  are 
scheduled;  also  that  a  list  of  names  is  not  placed 
in  crews,  rooms  starting  with  the  oldest  man 
in  service  in  rotation  through  the  entire  list,  such 
lists  are  not  being  posted  one  day  before  choos- 
ing of  runs  begins;  and  it  is  not  provided  that  early 
straight  men  are  entitled  to  choose  runs  between  the  hours 
of  two  o'clock  P.  M.,  and  six  o'clock  P.  M.,  on  the  second 
day  after  list  is  posted,  and  late  straight  men  are  not  en- 
titled to  choose  between  the  hours  of  eleven  and  three 
P.  M.,  on  the  third  day  and  the  balance  are  not  permitted 
to  choose  runs  on  the  fourth  day  between  the  hours  of  nine 
A.  M.  and  two  o'clock  P.  M. ;  and  that  there  is  no  provision 
that  each  man  when  choosing  his  run  shall  check  his  name 
from  the  list  and  then  a  failing  to  sign  within  the  specified 
time  the  superintendent  shall  be  empowered  to  assign  them 
to  the  best  run  open;  and  that  in  case  a  run  becomes 
vacant  there  is  no  condition  of  employment  which  provides 
that  the  first  extra  shall  take  the  run  and  hold  it  until  the 
list  is  changed  at  the  end  of  the  three  months  period  with- 
in which  such  vacancy  occurs;  and  where  a  regular  man 
is  off  through  sickness  or  otherwise,  his  run  is  to  be  filled 
by  an  extra  man  taking  the  run  for  three  days  at  the  end 
of  which  time  the  run  shall  be  open  for  allottment  to  the 
man  of  the  extra  list  upon  a  system  of  three  days  limit 
for  each  extra  in  order. 

21.  As  to  the  twenty-first  grievance : 
(a)  Your  respondent  shows  that  there  is  no  foundation 
in  fact  for  said  twenty-first  grievance.  That  the 
seniority  in  service  at  the  car  house  where  the  men  re- 
port does  govern  their  actual  seniority.  That  it  has 
not  been  the  custom  to  throw  open  the  runs  for  pick- 
ing and  choosing  on  account  of  the  demand  of  the 
men  themselves  that  they  did  not  desire  it  to  be  done 
in  this  way. 

But  your  respondent  further  says  that  if  it  is  the 
desire  of  the  majority  of  the  men  that  the  runs  should 
be  thrown  open  twice  a  year  for  picking  and  choosing, 


138 

your  respondent  is  willing  to  do  so,  and  will,  unless 
a  majority  of  the  men  protest  within  a  period  of  ten 
days  after  the  filing  of  this  answer,  make  it  the  rule 
and  custom  to  throw  open  the  runs  for  picking  and 
choosing  twice  a  year,  and  provide  for  suitable  times 
for  the  men  to  choose  the  runs  they  desire. 

Your  respondent  says  that  it  is  not  fair  or  just  in 
the  event  a  run  becomes  vacant  for  the  first  extra 
man  to  take  that  run  and  hold  it  until  the  end  of  the 
period.  But  such  run  should  be  available  to  the  next 
regular  man  who  is  thus  entitled  to  an  advance  in 
seniority.  Further,  that  it  is  not  practicable  that 
when  a  regular  man  is  off  his  run,  his  run  to  be  filled 
by  an  extra  man  for  three  days,  but  only  that  the  run 
should  be  filled  by  extra  men  during  the  time  that  the 
regular  man  is  off  and  that  said  extra  men  should 
rotate  according  to  their  seniority  in  securing  that  run 
on  the  various  days  that  the  regular  man  is  off.  This 
is  and  has  been  the  custom  in  the  management  of  this 
company's  business  and  no  foundation  exists  for  this 
grievance. 

Twenty-second:  The  employes  submit  as  a  grievance 
that  no  condition  of  employment  exists  by  agreement  be- 
tween the  Employes  Association  and  the  employing  Com- 
pany to  provide  that  any  matters  of  future  dispute  that 
cannot  be  satisfactorily  adjusted  between  the  partii-s  to 
the  agreement  shall  be  submitted  to  a  temporary  board  of 
arbitration;  either  party  to  the  agreement  upon  notifica- 
tion in  writing  from  the  other  party  that  arbitration  is 
desired  shall  name  its  arbitrator  within  forty-eight  hourvj 
from  the  date  of  receiving  such  notice,  such  notice  to  be 
addressed  to  the  representative  of  the  Company  and  the 
Committee  of  the  Employes  Association  and  the  delivery 
of  such  notice  shall  be  sufficient  notification  providing 
delivery  is  made  at  the  place  of  business  of  either  party 
to  warrant  that  arbitration  is  desired;  that  the  Board  of 
Arbitration  shall  be  composed  of  three  persons,  the  C  )m 
pany  to  select  one,  the  employes  to  select  one,  and  the 
two  thus  selected  shall  select  a  third;  that  arbitrators  io 
constitute  the  Board  of  Arbitration  shall  be  selected  with- 
out unreasonable  delay;  that  at  the  hearing  of  the  afore- 


139 

said  arbitration,  either  side  shall  be  represented  by  repre- 
sentatives of  their  respective  choice,  and  after  all  evidence 
and  arguments  have  been  heard  by  the  Board  of  Arbitra- 
tion an  award  shall  be  formulated  in  writng  and  sub- 
mitted to  the  respective  parties  within  fifteen  days;  the 
finding  of  the  majority  of  the  said  board  shall  be  final  and 
binding  upon  the  parties  to  the  agreement;  the  expense 
of  the  Board  of  Arbitration  shall  be  borne  by  each  party 
paying  the  arbitrator  of  its  selection  and  by  both  parties 
jointly  and  equally  paying  the  expense  of  the  third  arbi- 
trator and  such  other  expense  of  the  arbitration  incurred 
at  the  instance  or  direction  of  the  Arbitration  Board. 


22.   As  to  the  twenty-second  grievance : 

(a)  Your  respondent  objects  to  any  consideration  of 
said  twenty-second  grievance,  for  the  reason  (1)  that 
it  is  not  within  the  scope  of  the  contract  of  November 
7,  1913,  and  (2)  that  it  is  not  within  the  jurisdiction 
of  the  arbitrators  under  said  contract  of  November  7, 
1913. 

(b)  Your  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  said  twenty- 
second  grievance  for  the  reason  that  said  contract  of 
November  7,  1913,  together  with  the  report  of  this 
Board  of  Arbitration  settles  all  grievances  and  dis- 
putes for  a  period  of  three  years,  and  this  board  has 
no  jurisdiction  for  a  period  beyond  three  years,  and 
this  respondent  cannot  be  required  to  enter  into  a  con- 
tract which  would  extend  beyond  a  period  of  three 
years  or  which  would  invalidate  said  contract  of 
November  7,  1913,  or  the  award  of  the  Board  of 
Arbitration  thereunder. 

Twenty-third:  Your  employes  file  as  a  grievance  that 
there  exists  no  agreement  between  the  Employes  Associa- 
tion and  the  employing  Company  as  a  condition  of  employ- 
ment to  provide  to  continue  for  a  period  of  time  to  be 
agreed  upon  by  agreement  and  that  no  condition  of  em- 
ployment exists  by  which  an  agreement  is  provided  in 
which  changes  in  an  agreement  may  be  made  or  defining 
the  period  of  agreement  or  providing  for  the  submission 
of  any  dispute  relative  to  changes  in  agreement  may  be 


140  ^ 

made  to  Board  of  Arbitration,  and  that  no  agreement  ex- 
ists between  the  Company  and  the  Employes  Association, 
providing  to  designate  the  association  as  representative  of 
the  employes  in  the  determination  upon  future  grievances. 

23.     As  to  the  twenty-third  grievance:  ' 

(a)  Your  respondent  objects  to  any  consideration  of 
said  twenty-third  grievance,  for  the  reason  (1)  that 
it  is  not  within  the  scope  of  the  contract  of  November 
7,  1913,  and  (2)  that  it  is  not  within  the  jurisdiction 
of  the  arbitrators  under  said  contract  of  November  7, 
1913. 

(b)  Your  respondent  declines  to  accede  to  said  twenty- 
third  grievance  for  the  reason  that  said'  contract  of 
November  7,  1913,  together  with  the  report  of  this 
Board  of  Arbitration  settles  all  grievances  and  dis- 
putes for  a  period  of  three  years,  and  this  board  has 
no  jurisdiction  for  a  preiod  beyond  three  years,  and 
this  respondent  cannot  be  required  to  enter  into  a  con- 
tract which  would  extend  beyond  a  period  of  three 
years  or  which  would  invalidate  said  con,tract  of 
November  7,  1913,  or  the  award  of  the  Board  of 
AHn'trntion  thereunder. 


141 

The  following  employes  testified  for  the  Committee. 
These  are  the  wage  earnings  of  each  since  June  1,  with  a 
short  resume  of  his  evidence. 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Frederick  Sellers 
Track  Department  and  Oar  Service  Department,  as  Motor- 
man  at  25c  Per  Hour.    Badge  No.  85. 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Date 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

12 

12 

12 

2 

12 

11 

12 

11 

11 

3 

11 

11 

11 

12 

4 

11 

15 

11 

11 

5 

11 

11 

12 

11 

' 

6 

12 

7 

11 

11 

7 

12 

11 

12 

11 

11 

8 

10 

12 

11 

12 

12 

9 

11 

12 

12 

12 

12 

10 

12 

11 

11 

12 

11 

.  12 

11 

12 

11 

12 

11  39 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

11 

11  39 

13 

12 

11 

11 

11 

12 

11  39 

14 

12 

12 

11 

9 

11 

11  39 

15 

10 

11 

11 

11 

11 

10  55 

16 

12 

19 

11 

20 

11 

17 

17 

11 

11 

11 

11  39 

18 

11 

12 

11 

12 

11 

11  39 

19 

12 

11 

12 

12 

20 

11 

11 

12 

11 

21 

12 

12 

11 

12 

11  39 

22 

21 

11 

11 

9 

10  55 

23 

11 

11 

12 

11 

11 

24 

11 

12 

12 

12 

11  39 

25 

11 

12 

11 

11 

12 

11  39 

26 

12 

12 

11 

12 

9 

11  39 

27 

11 

12 

12 

11 

11  39 

28 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11  39 

29 

10 

23 

12 

12 

12 

10  55 

30 

12 

11 

11 

11 

19 

11  31 

31 

12 

11 

11 

Total  Time  324        338         308        314        334         184  04 
Total  Wages  Actually  Paid 

181  00  $84  00  177  00  |78  50  |83  50  |46  02 


142 

This  man  worked  for  track  department  during  summer 
months  and  returned  to  car  service  department  November 
11th,  1913. 

Motorman  8  years;  wife;  2  children;  didn't  quit  Oct. 
31;  quit  Nov.  1;  didn't  know  of  strike  until  Saturday 
morning;  twice  I  have  refused  to  work  overtime;  never 
presented  any  grievance;  pay  |10.00  rent;  coal  |7.75  to 
$10.25  a  ton;  grocery  bill  |6  to  |7  a  week;  shoes  |4.00  a 
pair.  "I  do  not  know  any  place  I  can  earn  as  much  as  I 
do  now." 


143 


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144 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  James  L.  Hayden 

Car  Service  Department  as  Motorman  at  25c  Per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  639. 


Date 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time  324  40  346  35  313  07  345  07  336  39  246  00 
Total  Actually  Paid : 

|81  17  186  65  178  28  |86  28  |84  17  |61  50 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Hrs  Mln 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

12  30 

11 

55 

11 

59 

12 

30 

11 

08 

11 

55 

11 

59 

7 

00 

11 

08 

11  55 

11 

55 

12 

30 

11 

59 

11 

08 

12 

50 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  55 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

17 

11  55 

12 

30 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  55 

11 

59 

11 

59 

12 

30 

11 

08 

12  30 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

10  50 

11  55 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  04 

11  55 

11 

46 

12 

30 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  20 

11  55 

11 

14 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  20 

11  55 

10 

53 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

17 

11  20 

11  55 

11 

15 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  20 

11  55 

11 

59 

12 

30 

11 

08 

11  20 

12  30 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

59 

12 

23 

10  50 

11  55 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  04 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  20 

11  55 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  20 

11  55 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

17 

11  20 

11  55 

12 

30 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11  55 

11 

59 

11 

59 

12 

30 

11 

08 

11  20 

12  30 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

10  50 

11  55 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  04 

11  55 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  20 

11  55 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  20 

11  55 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

17 

11  20 

11  55 

12 

30 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

08 

11  04 

11  55 

11 

59 

12 

30 

11 

20 

11  20 

12  30 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

20 

10  50 

11  55 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

59 

11 

20 

11  04 

11 

59 

12 

30 

11  20 

145 

Motorman  eight  years;  wife  and  four  children;  rent 
$12.00;  groceries  |8-|10  a  week.  "I  made  one  complaint 
in  the  8  years.  Used  to  be  a  fireman  on  the  railroad.  Made 
|80  to  $105  a  month.  Wife  was  not  satisfied  because  I  was 
away  from  home  so  much.  I  didn't  join  before  the  strike. 
I  didn't  know  the  strike  was  called  until  the  next  morn- 
ing." 


146 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  M.  McCarty, 

Car  Service  Department  as  Conductor  at  25c  Per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  440. 


June 

July 

Aug-. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Date 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

11 

55 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11 

54 

2 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

3 

11  54 

11  55 

11 

54 

11 

54 

4 

11 

55 

11 

54 

2 

58 

11 

54 

5 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

55 

6 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

7 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11 

54 

8 

11 

55 

11 

54 

12 

24 

11 

54 

11  54 

9 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  55 

10 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  54 

11 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  54 

12 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11  54 

13 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  54 

14 

11 

54 

11 

54 

3 

39 

11 

55 

11 

54 

11  54 

15 

11 

55 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  54 

16 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  55 

17 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11 

54 

11  54 

18 

11 

54 

12 

24 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  54 

19 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11  54 

20 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  54 

21 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11 

54 

22 

11 

55 

14 

24 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  54 

23 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  55 

24 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  54 

25 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  21 

26 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

55 

27 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  55 

28 

13 

24 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11 

54 

11  54 

29 

11 

55 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

2 

13 

11  54 

30 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11 

54 

11  55 

31 

11 

54 

11 

55 

11 

54 

Total  Time  346  41  324  22  349  20  324  21  357  23  249  26 
Total  Actually  Paid : 

$86  68  $81  11  187  35  |81  10  |89  36  $62  37 


147 

Conductor  23  years ;  wife  and  7  children ;  hours  11 :54 — 
The  hours  are  too  long.  "Ten  or  eleven  hours  are  enough. 
I  have  had  some  grievances  satisfactorily  adjusted — others 
not.  (Ticket  matter) ,  I  have  accumulated  property  worth 
|4,500  to  15,000.  I  began  at  14c ;  now  get  25c.  I  have  the 
run  I  want.  I  would  like  to  have  one  day  in  seven.  They 
always  listened  to  my  complaints — were  always  courteous 
to  me.  I  found  out  about  the  strike  about  midnight  when 
my  boy  came  home. 


148 


Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Glen  Thompson, 

Car  Service  Department  as  Motorman,  at  Rate  of  20c  Per 

Hour.    Badge  No.  299. 


June 

July 

Aug. 

SepL 

Oct 

Nov. 

Date 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

10  11 

10  11 

5 

14 

11  01 

2 

10  12 

12  10 

10  22 

10  12 

3 

5  59 

11  17 

10  12 

1  42 

4 

11  31 

4  51 

10 

11 

11  59 

5 

8  12 

11  20 

11 

50 

10  50 

6 

7  30 

9  41 

12 

39 

4  21 

7 

11  08 

11  30 

6  22 

11  14 

8 

7  50 

11  33 

14  25 

6  56 

13  43 

9 

9  09 

2  31 

15 

47 

10  32 

10 

10  11 

4  25 

9 

13 

10  12 

10  00 

11 

9  02 

17 

01 

6  24 

12 

14  33 

5  25 

10  26 

10  21 

11  14 

13 

2  25 

10  17 

13 

58 

8  57 

9  27 

14 

10  11 

10  29 

10 

14 

11  00 

2  59 

15 

10  22 

11  30 

12 

17 

11  11 

16 

5  27 

5  21 

12 

23 

11  20 

10  58 

17 

8  54 

10 

03 

4  22 

10  11 

18 

11  14 

10  54 

9 

29 

10  20 

3  30 

19 

13  28 

5 

23 

10  58 

4  22 

20 

8  26 

11  22 

10 

10 

10  51 

9  59 

21 

11  01 

5  20 

11 

48 

9  33 

22 

7  02 

10  22 

1 

48 

11  20 

10  22 

23 

9  10 

9  49 

5 

20 

10  26 

7  32 

24 

1  42 

10  10 

9  54 

10 

00 

4  22 

9  52 

25 

9  31 

7  20 

8  11 

2 

19 

10  42 

11  59 

26 

12  15 

7  04 

11  59 

11 

08 

9  22 

10  00 

27 

11  06 

11  15 

•  9  46 

7  00 

11  36 

28 

12  50 

10  22 

10 

02 

3  21 

10  51 

29 

11  02 

10  25 

11  13 

9 

40 

5  27 

2  31 

30 

4  57 

7  16 

4 

53 

12  32 

11  35 

31 

12  19 

11  48 

11  05 

Total  Time  58  26  254  16  283  39  284  37  259  09  193  35 
Total  Wages  Actually  Paid : 

111  69  $50  86  $56  73  $56  93  $51  83  $38  72 


149 

Age  21,  April,  1913;  motorman,  extra  man.  Rate  20c. 
"I  make  |8.00  to  |14.00  a  week.  I  joined  the  union  before 
the  strike.  I  signed  a  withdrawal,  but  not  of  my  free  will. 
Did  it  to  hold  my  job  .  I  deceived  Mr.  Mahoney  to  hold  my 
job."  Worked  Union  Station,  I7I/2C ;  Atlantic  City,  17^c ; 
Pittsburg,  liy^c;  Big  Four  bridge  gang,  17^c 


150 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Newton  B.  Hiles, 


Date 
1 

2 
3 

4 
5 
6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time  276  50  223  50  276  47  266  36  274  00  201  58 
At  rate  of  22c : 

160  90  |49  24  f44  75 
At  rate  of  23e :  |16  89  $61  33  $63  02  $46  46 

Total  Wages    Actually  Paid: 

90  $49  24  $61  64  $61  33  $63  02  $46  46 


Service 

Department.  Badge  No.  671. 

June 

July 

Aug-. 

Sept 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

8  45 

9  10 

9  10 

4  07 

10  57 

10  04 

9 

10 

9 

10 

9 

10 

10  57 

10  04 

12 

25 

9 

22 

9 

10 

10  57 

10  04 

9 

22 

9 

10 

9 

10 

10  57 

10  04 

9 

10 

9 

10 

9 

10 

11  01 

10  04 

9 

10 

9 

10 

3  36 

9  04 

13 

06 

10  57 

10  57 

9 

10 

9 

10 

9 

52 

9  10 

10  04 

9 

10 

9 

10 

4 

59 

9  10 

10  58 

10  04 

9 

10 

9 

22 

10 

00 

10  27 

9  28 

10  04 

9 

10 

18 

54 

10  15 

9  28 

10  04 

9 

10 

9 

10 

11 

14 

10  58 

9  28 

12  24 

9 

10 

11 

34 

10  27 

9  28 

9  04 

9 

10 

10 

26 

10 

09 

10  27 

9  28 

9  22 

9 

10 

9 

10 

10 

15 

10  27 

10  15 

9  10 

9 

10 

9 

10 

10  27 

5  50 

9  10 

14 

08 

3 

35 

10 

15 

10  27 

2  59 

9  10 

9 

10 

11 

22 

10 

15 

10  15 

10  27 

9  10 

9 

10 

13 

49 

10 

15 

9  10 

9 

22 

13 

10 

10 

15 

10  27 

9  29 

9  10 

9 

10 

9 

10 

9 

22 

10  27 

10  27 

9  22 

9 

10 

9 

10 

9 

10 

10  27 

10  15 

2  43 

9 

10 

10  27 

10  58 

9  10 

9 

30 

9 

10 

10  55 

9  28 

8 

22 

9 

45 

3  32 

10  27 

13  31 

9 

10 

9 

10 

10  27 

9  10 

4 

15 

9 

10 

9 

10 

4  32 

10  58 

9  10 

9 

10 

14 

48 

11 

01 

10  27 

9  22 

9 

10 

10 

57 

10  27 

10  15 

9  10 

9 

10 

9 

10 

10 

57 

10  27 

10  58 

9  25 

3 

05 

10  27 

151 

This  man's  rate  increased  from  22c  per  hour  to  23c  per 
hour  August  23,  1913.  Age  24;  motorman;  employed  3 
years;  wife  and  baby.  "I  joined  the  union.  Mr  Mahoney 
told  me  I  was  in  bad  company.  I  told  him  I  didn't  belong, 
but  I  did.  I  went  on  strike.  Worked  at  Cincinnati  at  20c ; 
worked  in  butcher  shop  at  |8.00  a  week.  Worked  as  a  pol- 
isher at  Keyless  Lock  Co.,  but  didn't  make  as  much  as  I 
am  making  now." 


152 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  A  I.  MeCray, 

Car  Service  Department,  as  Conductor,  at  23c  Per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  270. 


Date 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time  185  37  276  29  234  21  278  21  230  19     82  36 
Total  Actually  Paid: 

|42  70  163  60  |53  91  |64  03  |52  98  |19  01 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

11  09 

9 

24 

9 

24 

11 

09 

9 

24 

9  24 

9 

24 

10 

17 

9 

24 

9 

24 

9  24 

9 

24 

11 

09 

9 

24 

9  24 

11 

09 

9 

24 

9 

24 

10 

17 

10 

17 

9 

24 

9 

24 

11 

09 

11 

09 

9 

24 

10 

17 

9 

24 

9 

24 

11 

09 

9 

24 

9 

24 

9 

24 

9 

24 

10  23 

12 

09 

10 

17 

9 

24 

8 

40 

9 

24 

11 

09 

11 

12 

9 

24 

11 

12 

9 

24 

10 

23 

10 

17 

9 

24 

11 

09 

9  24 

10 

17 

10 

23 

11 

09 

10 

23 

10 

28 

10 

23 

9  24 

9 

24 

9 

24 

10 

23 

9  24 

9 

24 

10 

53 

5 

51 

9  24 

9 

24 

11  25 

9 

24 

10 

05 

9  24 

10 

17 

11  25 

9 

24 

11 

09 

9  24 

11 

09 

11 

25 

10 

17 

10 

23 

10  17 

9 

24 

11 

09 

10 

23 

11  09 

9 

24 

11 

25 

9 

24 

10 

23 

9  24 

9 

24 

10 

55 

9 

24 

10 

23 

9  24 

9 

24 

10 

53 

10  23 

9  24 

9 

24 

11 

25 

9 

24 

10 

23 

11  17 

9  24 

10 

17 

11 

25 

9 

24 

11 

09 

9  25 

9  24 

11 

09 

3 

01 

10 

17 

11  09 

10  17 

9 

24 

9 

24 

11 

09 

9  25 

11  09 

9 

24 

9 

24 

9 

24 

9  25 

9  24 

9 
9 

24 
24 

10 

17 

9 

24 

11  09 

153 

Conductor ;  this  time  3  years ;  in  all  8  years.  "I  get  |15.18 
a  week  for  seven  days.  Pay  |10  rent ;  grocery,  |6  a  week.  I 
can  hardly  live.  Wife  sews  to  buy  her  own  clothes.  Before 
strike  I  complained ;  it  was  five  years  ago ;  bridge  was  out. 
Mahoney  said  we  ought  to  be  satisfied.  In  a  few  days  they 
had  a  temporary  vestibule  and  Mr.  Mahoney  told  me  to  go 
to  work.  Lately  I  went  to  him  about  my  wife  and  Mr. 
Padgett.  Called  up  about  union.  'It's  up  to  you — spit  her 
out.'  He  told  me  to  go  to  work,  at  which  I  was  surprised. 
This  is  the  fifth  time  I  have  worked  for  the  Company.  I 
have  no  complaint  to  make  of  the  inspectors.  I  think  their 
reports  are  honestly  made.  I  learned  of  the  strike  the 
morning  after.  Joined  Oct.  2.  I  wouldn't  work  with  a  non- 
union man — even  if  this  board  orders  it.    ( Retracted  this. ) 


154 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  J.  W.  Miller,  Car  Service 

Department,  as  Motorman  at  24  cents  per 

hour.  Badge  No.  483. 


Date 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct     Nov. 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min  Hrs  Min 

11  00 

10 

53 

10  20 

10  38 

10  13 

10  38 

10 

53 

12  10 

10  20 

10  38 

11 

15 

10  20 

10  38 

10 

53 

10  20 

11 

15 

10  20 

10  13 

10  46 

10 

53 

13  45 

12  10 

11  00 

10  20 
10  13 

10  20 
13  00 

10  38 

4  25 

13  10 

10  38 

15  15 

10  38 

10  20 

10  38 

10  20 

10  46 

10  20 

11  15 

10  20 

10  53 

5  42 

3  41 

12  10 

10  53 

10  20 
14  35 

10  53 

14  39 

10  53 

10  20 
10  20 

10  53 

10  13 

10  53 

11 

13 

12  10 

10  53 

11 

13 

10  20 

1  23 

11 

13 

10  20 

10  53 

12 

10 

10  20 

10  03 

10 

20 

10  20 

11  15 

10 

20 

10  20 

10  53 

10 

20 

10  13 

10 

34 

7  55 

Total  Time  264  10  153  25  283  03  115  28 
Total  Actually  Paid. 

$63  40  $36  82  $67  94  $27  71 


155 

(Discharged  September  17, 1913.) 
Wife  and  4  children.  Worked  4i/^  years.  Joined  union 
in  October.  In  October  I  talked  to  Mr.  Mahoney.  He 
wanted  to  know  if  I  had  joined,  I  said  no.  TMrly-fourth 
and  Illinois  Charles  Long  and  25  more  chased  me.  Jerked 
me  off  the  car. 

Was   arrested   after   leaving   the   stand   for   carrying 
weapons.     (Affair  about  the  red  tickets.) 


156 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Eobert  A.  McDaniel, 
Car  Service  Department,  as  Motorman.    Badge  No.  197. 


Jurne 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Dat« 

Hrs  Mln 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

9  36 

7  53 

9 

33 

2 

14 

2 

7 

05 

7 

53 

10 

00 

10 

00 

10 

00 

3 

7 

05 

7  53 

9 

01 

10 

00 

10 

00 

4 

11 

05 

12 

33 

10 

00 

10 

00 

9 

34 

5 

10 

08 

10 

00 

5 

18 

6 

7 

05 

12 

33 

10 

00 

9  34 

10 

00 

7 

10 

10 

7  53 

10 

00 

9 

33 

10 

00 

8 

7 

17 

9  37 

10 

00 

10 

00 

10 

00 

1  40 

9 

7 

05 

3 

30 

10 

00 

10 

00 

10 

7 

05 

9 

00 

17  32 

10 

00 

11 

7 

05 

2 

40 

16 

34 

12 

7 

05 

10 

00 

12  24 

10  00 

13 

7 

05 

10 

00 

9 

34 

10 

00 

10  00 

14 

10 

10 

4 

52 

10 

00 

10 

00 

10  00 

15 

9 

26 

9 

01 

10 

00 

10 

00 

9  34 

16 

7 

05 

9 

01 

10 

00 

10 

00 

17 

7 

05 

9 

01 

10 

00 

10  00 

18 

7  53 

4 

13 

9 

34 

10  00 

19 

7  53 

9 

02 

10 

00 

10  00 

20 

4 

02 

10 

00 

10 

00 

10  00 

21 

9 

51 

10 

00 

10 

00 

10  00 

22 

9 

51 

10 

00 

10 

00 

9  34 

23 

10 

00 

1 

10 

10 

00 

24 

10 

00 

9 

26 

10 

00 

10  00 

25 

1 

42 

4 

31 

10 

00 

10 

00 

9 

34 

10  00 

26 

11 

42 

10 

00 

10 

00 

10 

00 

10  00 

27 

7  53 

9 

17 

10 

00 

9 

34 

10 

00 

9  33 

28 

10 

08 

10 

00 

10 

00 

3 

20 

10 

00 

10  00 

29 

12 

33 

10 

00 

10 

00 

10 

00 

9  34 

30 

7  53 

5  40 

9 

34 

10 

00 

2 

14 

9  33 

31 

9 

33 

Total  Honrs  196  11  214  45  253  54  192  56  223  10  169  28 
RateprHr.      20c         20c         20c         20c         20c         20c 
Total  Wages 
Paid $41  20  |45  10  |53  32  $40  52  $46  87  ^35  60 


157 

Li, .     k 
Age,  32.    Wife  and  3  children.    Began  work  May,  1913. 

"I  work  18^  hours  and  get  10  hours'  pay.  I  have  not  been 
able  to  save.  Went  with  Kinder  to  see  Mr.  Todd.  I  joined. 
Before  jyeople  treated  us  like  dogs.  On  my  wages  I  can't 
comfortably  clothe  and,  keep  my  children.  Worked  in  gro- 
cery at  Waldron,  |10.00  a  week,  board,  room.  Farm  near 
Eushville,  $25.00  a  month.  I  knew  if  I  quit  I  might  have 
trouble  to  get  a  job." 


158 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Earl  Galvin, 
Car  Service  Department,  as  Motor:  lan.    Badge  No.  729. 

Jun«  July  Augr.  Bept  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min 

1 

2 
3 

4 
5 
6 

7 
8 
0 

11 
12 
13 

14  10  11 

15  12  36 

16  9  34 

17  11  22 
18 

19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 


Total  Hours  Worked :  43  43 

At  20c  per  Hour:  |8  75 


159 

This  man  was  employed  October  22,  1913,  reiwrted  for 
work  November  14  and  was  discharged  November  18, 1913. 
Age,  25.  Extra.  Louisiana  barn.  "I  have  never  missed  a 
run  when  I  reported.  I've  only  reported  4  days.  Dis- 
charged for  having  a  collision."    Employed  since  strike. 


160 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Thomas  B.  Stearns, 
Car  Service  Department,  as  Motorman.    Badge  No.  423. 


Jun« 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Date 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

3 

18 

9 

41 

10  40 

2 

9 

42 

12 

41 

3 

6 

10 

12 

50 

4 

17 

15 

10 

12 

10  12 

5 

9 

51 

6 

44 

9  33 

6 

10 

58 

10 

12 

10  51 

7 

9 

27 

10 

53 

2  24 

10  32 

8 

9 

27 

11 

44 

10  22 

9  40 

10  53 

9 

3 

38 

14 

57 

16  51 

11  06 

9  11 

10 

2 

38 

8 

40 

10  27 

11 

10 

48 

10 

10 

17  28 

10  49 

12 

10 

09 

11 

53 

6  40 

13 

12 

13 

10 

02 

10  34 

11  14 

10  26 

14 

6 

22 

11 

14 

10  23 

10  12 

15 

11 

27 

9 

40 

9  40 

10  03 

13  34 

16 

10 

53 

6 

11 

1  42 

11  24 

11  36 

17 

9 

17 

9  29 

4  22 

13  31 

18 

6 

30 

11 

20 

11  14 

4  22 

19 

11 

22 

10 

29 

11  14 

9  33 

20 

9 

08 

8  40 

13 

49 

6  27 

10  21 

10  53 

21 

9 

17 

11 

14 

11 

33 

9  00 

9  52 

9  23 

22 

11 

01 

11 

06 

1 

42 

11  20 

10  26 

6  27 

23 

6 

31 

5 

20 

12 

00 

11  30 

4  14 

9  20 

24 

9  20 

9  22 

12 

00 

5  20 

10  22 

11  40 

25 

14 

39 

10 

25 

12 

00 

11  20 

4  31 

11  10 

26 

11 

10 

7 

01 

12 

00 

11  30 

11  24 

9  23 

27 

3 

54 

9 

16 

12 

00 

9  51 

10  03 

11  29 

28 

9 

49 

10  25 

12 

00 

1  42 

29 

8  44 

6 

52 

12 

00 

11  20 

11  20 

2  31 

30 

9 

56 

11 

10 

12 

00 

9  23 

1  42 

10  54 

31 

11 

01 

12 

00 

10  03 

Total  Hours  103  29  273  17  216  37  236  20  193  13  188  10 
Per  Hour..       20c        20c        20c        20c        20c        20c 


108  00  10  40 

Per  Hour..                                  25c  25c 
Total  Wages 

Paid |20  70  f54  66  $70  33  |47  27  |38  65  |40  31 


161 

Motorman  since  January,  1911.  Wife  and  two  children. 
This  is  the  third  time  I've  worked  for  the  Company.  De- 
tailed in  August  on  sluggers.  Found  a  gun  in  my  pocket. 
Before  the  strike  I  made  |7,  |8,  |9  a  week ;  barely  existed. 
Worked  as  attendant  at  insane  hospitals  at  |35,  then  at  $25 
a  month.  Worked  in  broom  factory,  etc.  Mr.  Mahoney 
always  treated  me  like  a  man. 


162 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Paul  Smith, 

Car  Service  Department  as  Motorman,  at  21c  per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  129. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time.  229  23  188  58 
Total  Actu- 
ally Paid.  J?48  17  139  69 


11  04 

9  31 

2  32 

9  31 

9  31 

9  31 

4  35 

12  04 

9  31 

10  39 

9  31 

11  04 

10  39 

9  31 

11  04 

1  55 

9  31 

9  31 

9  31 

9  31 

9  31 

4  37 

10  39 

9  31 

11  04 

10  39 

9  01 

4  20 

2  23 

9  31 

9  35 

9  31 

9  31 

9  31 

9  31 

11  19 

9  31 

11  04 

10  07 

2  32 

11  04 

9  31 

9  31 

3  16 

10  39 

11  04 

9  31 

163 

Age,  24.  Motorman.  Wife;  no  children.  Second  time 
with  the  company.  Rent,  |4  a  week;  light  housekeeping. 
Grocery  bill,  |5  to  $7  a  week  and  2  meals  away  from  home 
each  day  for  me.  Buy  my  clothes  on  credit.  I  was  dis- 
charged. Then  later  I  was  employed  on  detail  work.  One 
night  I  stood  a  summons ;  called  names ;  vile ;  then  all  went 
down  to  alley  and  had  a  fight.  Police  came ;  searched  liuto, 
etc.  Saw  Gus  Bauer  cut  by  an  organizer.  I  knew  there 
was  going  to  be  a  strike  and  went  home.  Worked  at  Union 
Railway  and  Welsbach  Light  Company,  Got  $12  a  week. 
Worked  for  Pennsylvania  Company,  but  got  appendicitis. 
When  I  came  back  I  knew  the  conditions  and  wages.  I 
didn't  know  any  other  job  where  I  could  get  along  without 
lifting. 


164 

Hours  of  Time  and,  Wages  of  A.  H.  Ray, 

Car  Service  Department,  as  Conductor,  at  20c  per  Uour. 

Badge  No.  80. 


Date 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 


Total  Time.  172  31  244  43  248  29     11  05 
Total  Actu- 
allT Paid.  134  50  $48  95  |49  70    |2  22 


Jun« 

July 

Aug.    Sept. 

Oct    Nov. 

Hrs  Mln 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Mln   Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Mln  Hrs  Mln 

3  10 

8  05 

7  11  11  05 

10  13 

5  45 

12  36 

4  37 

3  23 

10  03 

9  31 

14  24 

7  11 

12  15 

8  19 

4  36 

10  02 

8  19 

8  25 

8  15 

8  19 

5  30 

3  04 

8  19 

3  23 

6  59 

10  12 

10  00 

6  59 

11  05 

6  59 

6  21 

10  29 

8  19 

9  03 

8  19 

6  59 

4  04 

7  11 

8  19 

7  11 

10  12 

8  19 

7  11 

11  05 

10  00 

8  19 

3  45 

12  36 

8  19 

8  39 

10  26 

11  52 

11  50 

7  21 

11  26 

7  11 

6  44 

8  55 

7  11 

10  12 

9  50 

7  11 

11  05 

12  46 

7  11 

11  22 

12  36 

8  19 

4  16 

10  02 

8  19 

8  56 

7  11 

7  43 

11  11 

7  11 

8  19 

1  51 

7  11 

7  11 

11  05 

165 

Conductor  since  February  16.  Called  in  about  my  bond 
Went  to  see  the  bond  men.  They  wouldn't  give  me  any  in- 
formation. Had  a  fight  with  James  Gorman.  Had  a  fight 
in  Moran's  saloon,  while  waiting  for  my  father. 


166 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  C.  Kinder, 

Car  Service  Department,  as  Conductor,  at  21c  per  Hour. 

Bad^e  No.  168. 


Date 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

10  27 

10 

23 

9 

30 

10 

04 

10  02 

2 

10  23 

9 

43 

10 

04 

10 

02 

10  02 

3 

10  23 

9 

43 

11 

04 

10 

02 

10  02 

4 

10  23 

9 

26 

9 

30 

10 

02 

10  12 

5 

10  23 

9 

14 

9  30 

10 

02 

11  06 

6 

10  23 

9 

02 

9 

30 

10  35 

10  02 

7 

10  16 

9 

43 

9 

30 

11 

06 

10  02 

8 

10  27 

9 

43 

9 

30 

10 

02 

10  02 

9 

10  23 

9 

43 

10 

04 

10 

02 

10  02 

10 

10  23 

9 

38 

11 

04 

13 

57 

10  02 

11 

10  23 

9 

38 

9 

30 

14 

02 

10  12 

12 

10  23 

11 

02 

10 

02 

11  06 

13 

10  23 

10 

07 

10 

12 

10  02 

14 

10  16 

9  38 

9 

30 

11 

06 

10  02 

15 

10  27 

9  30 

9 

30 

10 

42 

10  02 

16 

10  23 

10 

34 

10 

04 

10 

02 

10  12 

17 

10  23 

10 

34 

11 

04 

2 

22 

10  02 

18 

10  23 

10 

34 

9 

30 

10  12 

19 

10  23 

10 

08 

9 

30 

20 

10  23 

9 

54 

9 

30 

10 

12 

11  38 

21 

12  09 

9 

30 

11 

06 

11  38 

22 

10  27 

10 

34 

9 

30 

10 

02 

23 

10  23 

9 

30 

10 

04 

10 

02 

11  38 

24 

1ft  23 

9 

30 

10 

02 

11  38 

25 

10  23 

9 

30 

9 

30 

10 

02 

11  35 

26 

10  23 

10 

04 

9 

30 

10 

02 

27 

10  23 

11 

04 

9 

30 

10 

12 

11  38 

28 

10  16 

9 

30 

9 

30 

11 

06 

11  38 

29 

10  27 

9 

30 

9 

30 

10  02 

30 

7  00 

9 

30 

10 

04 

10 

02 

31 

9 

30 

11 

04 

Total  Time.  309  52  296  09  275  06  287  12  264  47 
Total  Actu- 
ally Paid. 165  07  |62  19  $57  77  |60  31  $55  61 


167 

Conductor.  Married.  One  boy.  I  made  114.40  a  week. 
Pay  111  a  month  rent.  Wife  attends  to  bills  and  I  don't 
know  about  them.  I  haven't  saved  anything.  I  presented 
the  demands  to  Mr.  Todd.  I  was  in  two  crowds  when  stones 
were  thrown.  Was  arrested,  but  acquitted.  I  made  no 
effort  to  stop  it.    I  had  no  right  to  stop  it. 


168 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  B.  E.  Cook, 

Car  Service  Department  as  Motorman  at  20c  per  hour. 

Badge  No.  451. 


ji 

iTve           July          Aug.           Sept.           Oct.           Nov. 

Date 

HrsMin     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      HrsMin     HrsMin    HrsMin 

1 

2 

11 

15 

3 

11 

14 

4 

10 

53 

5 

10 

53 

6 

10 

53 

7 

10 

38 

8 

9 

10 

53 

10 

10 

53 

11 

7 

40 

12 

13 

10 

53 

14 

10 

38 

15 

12 

34 

16 

8  23 

17 

11 

06 

18 

11 

06 

19 

11 

06 

20 

11 

06 

21 

9 

57 

22 

12 

34 

23 

11 

06 

24 

25 

26 

27 

28 

29 

30 

31 

Total  Time. 

215 

41 

Total  Actu- 

ally Paid.  |43 

13 

169 

Discharged  June  24th  1913. 
Motorman  18  months ;  wife ;  two  children.  Quit.  Called 
to  office  about  running  away  from  a  man  out  near  Fair- 
grounds. He  said,  "Well,  you  can  just  quit."  I  don't 
know  why  I  quit.  Was  in  a  fight.  Arrested  All  parties 
discharged  They  followed  me  about  three  weeks.  Rent, 
|8 ;  grocery  bill,  |7  to  |9  a  week ;  coffee,  30c  a  pound ;  pota- 
toes, 35c  a  peck ;  bacon,  23c ;  apples,  25c  a  peck  We  pay 
|3.50  a  month  for  apples.  I  was  not  able  to  save.  I 
couldn't  say  I  was  satisfied  with  the  wages,  but  I  couldn't 
do  any  better.  Worked  at  Newport,  Ky.,  20-23c.  My 
run  here  was  over  |15.00  a  week.  Since,  worked  in  a 
lumber  mill,  20c  an  hour.    Drivers  get  |9  to  $12  a  week. 


170 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  A.  L.  Deal, 

Car  Service  Department,  as  Conductor,  at  20c  per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  306. 


Date 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Mi)» 

1 

48 

9 

18 

11 

10 

9 

32 

2 

10 

01 

13 

55 

3 

10 

04 

14  31 

11 

17 

11 

44 

2 

19 

4 

5 

17 

14 

10 

11 

44 

10 

08 

13 

56 

5 

11 

11 

16 

12 

13 

06 

9 

09 

9 

05 

6 

14 

28 

11 

04 

11 

52 

10  25 

10 

50 

7 

11 

51 

9 

08 

9 

32 

9 

50 

5  24 

8 

5 

40 

6 

10 

10 

51 

10 

04 

9  38 

9 

10 

13 

11 

13 

9  30 

11 

53 

10 

6 

19 

10 

07 

11 

15 

9 

56 

11 

9 

59 

9  27 

12 

00 

13 

05 

12 

10 

26 

2 

38 

11 

38 

13 

11 

53 

7  20 

10 

23 

10 

33 

10  47 

14 

12 

58 

9 

18 

7  24 

9 

08 

15 

9 

05 

2 

58 

8  50 

10 

51 

10  55 

16 

6 

00 

9 

27 

17 

9 

41 

10 

11 

11 

28 

8 

06 

8 

08 

18 

12 

06 

9 

27 

12 

28 

8 

06 

9 

18 

10  04 

19 

10 

05 

12 

00 

11 

33 

6 

10 

9 

40 

13  25 

20 

3 

18 

11 

11 

3 

18 

9 

26 

4  02 

21 

10 

05 

8 

06 

8 

08 

14 

01 

22 

11 

04 

12 

09 

8 

51 

6 

00 

8  53 

.>■•» 

13 

43 

9 

56 

11 

10 

8 

51 

10 

48 

12  32 

24 

9 

27 

9 

27 

11 

01 

8 

51 

3 

56 

3  39 

25 

12 

37 

13 

06 

10 

40 

9  20 

26 

2 

42 

12 

24 

7 

40 

10 

58 

11 

08 

10  35 

27 

9 

42 

10 

10 

7 

40 

11 

23 

2 

13 

14  12 

28 

13 

22 

6 

10 

11 

58 

9 

41 

29 

10 

22 

13 

54 

4 

22 

10 

56 

14 

46 

11  34 

30 

9 

41 

3 

18 

7 

53 

2 

58 

48 

31 

10 

13 

11 

53 

Total  Time.  268  07  238  20  236  36  248  02  255  32  130  24 
Total  Actu- 
ally Paid.  153  63  147  66  147  32  149  61  |51  11  |26  08 


171 

Age,  22.  Single.  Support  mother  and  brother  living  at 
Seymour.  Employed  May  5,  1913.  I've  worked  for  the 
Ck)mpany  3  times.  My  wages  clear  through  the  extra  list 
would  average  |11  a  week.  Pay  board  |5.50  to  |6  a  week. 
Koom,  11.25  a  week.  Discharged  by  Tretton  for  stealing. 
Cautioned  by  Tretton  for  losing  out.  Discharged  for  in- 
sulting a  lady.  Joined  the  union.  Arrested  Saturday  of 
strike.  Worked  at  G.  &  J.  Tire  Company  at  15c.  Worked 
at  Seymour  at  |9  a  week.  Mr.  Mahoney  said,  "I'll  give 
you  another  chance."    I  am  now  earning  20c. 


172 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  J.  Schuler, 

Car  Service  Department  as  Motorman  at  20c  per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  953. 


June           July 

Aug.           Sept 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Date                        Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

6 

29 

2 

10 

32 

3 

10  25 

4 

6  26 

5 

10 

46 

6 

10  32 

11 

33 

7 

3  34 

8 

14  22 

10 

45 

10  00 

9 

9  29 

10  22 

10 

17  53 

11  40 

11 

16  30 

9 

32 

12 

8  44 

10  50 

11  33 

13 

13  22 

10  22 

14 

12  10 

15 

11  22 

9 

01 

10  17 

16 

8  57 

9 

23 

7  32 

17 

11  20 

3  10 

18 

11  01 

10 

22 

19 

11  22 

11 

30 

20 

6  26 

5 

04 

21 

11  12 

10 

12 

22 

11  01 

10 

22 

23 

10  25 

5 

22 

24 

6  56 

10 

26 

25 

11  08 

10 

51 

26 

10  25 

11 

10 

27 

13  10 

4 

14 

28 

10  14 

9 

23 

29 

8  57 

8  34 

30 

11  20 

10 

17 

31 

9  17 

Total  Timfc 

271  52 

243 

08 

64  34 

Wages  Actually  Paid 

f>4  37 

48  63 

12  92 

173 

Motorman ;  working  3  months.  I  make  between  $10  and 
$11  a  week.  Before  I  got  $11.50  a  week  in  a  tailor  shop  by 
working  extra  hours.  Before  that  C.  &  O.  freight  house, 
17e  a  hour.  Before  that  on  a  farm,  $25.00  a  month.  I  am 
not  trying  to  get  work  Father  and  brother  sending  me 
money.  "I  would  go  back  to  work  even  if  no  increase  of 
wages  was  granted." 


174 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  H.  C.  Schmidt. 

Car  Service  Department  as  Conductor  at  21c  per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  57Q. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept.  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  MIn    Hrs  Min 


1 

10  36 

10  57 

10 

57 

11 

23 

10 

57 

2 

10  39 

10  57 

10 

36 

6 

25 

10 

09 

3 

10  39 

10  57 

11 

23 

10 

57 

10 

57 

4 

11 

41 

10 

57 

10 

36 

5 

10  39 

11  23 

10 

57 

10 

57 

6 

10  39 

10  36 

10 

57 

10 

36 

11 

57 

7 

10  36 

11  23 

10 

57 

10 

23 

10 

57 

8 

11  23 

10  57 

5 

43 

10 

57 

10 

57 

11  22 

9 

10  39 

10  57 

10 

36 

10 

57 

10 

57 

11  23 

10 

10  39 

10  57 

11  23 

10 

57 

10 

57 

10  57 

11 

10  39 

10  57 

10  57 

8 

40 

10 

36 

10  57 

12 

10  02 

10  57 

10  57 

12 

00 

10  57 

13 

10  39 

10  36 

10 

57 

10 

36 

10 

57 

10  57 

14 

11  36 

10  23 

10 

57 

11  23 

10  57 

15 

11  23 

10  57 

10 

57 

10 

57 

10 

57 

10  36 

16 

10  39 

10  57 

11 

23 

10 

57 

10 

57 

11  23 

17 

10  39 

10  57 

10 

59 

10 

57 

10  57 

18 

10  39 

10  57 

11 

30 

9 

28 

10 

36 

10  57 

19 

10  39 

10  57 

11 

30 

10 

57 

11 

23 

10  57 

20 

11  23 

11 

30 

10 

36 

10 

57 

10  57 

21 

10  36 

10  57 

11 

06 

11 

23 

13 

31 

10  57 

22 

11  23 

10  57 

7 

20 

5 

19 

10 

57 

11  23 

23 

10  39 

10  57 

10 

53 

10 

57 

10 

57 

11  23 

24 

10  39 

10  57 

11 

23 

10 

57 

10 

57 

10  57 

25 

10  39 

10  57 

10 

57 

10 

57 

10 

36 

10  57 

26 

10  39 

10  36 

10 

57 

10 

57 

3 

52 

10  57 

27 

10  57 

11  23 

5 

47 

10 

57 

11  23 

28 

10  36 

10  57 

11 

23 

10 

57 

10  57 

29 

11  23 

10  57 

10 

57 

10 

57 

10 

57 

10  36 

30 

10  57 

10  57 

10 

36 

10 

57 

10 

57 

11  23 

31 

10  57 

11 

23 

9 

58 

Total  Tinie...301  52  318  40  312  19  299  34  312  20  254  10 
Total  Actu- 
ally  Paid.   63  39     66  92     65  59    62  92    65  59    53  38 


175 

Conductor  for  nearly  2  years.  I  make  |16.12  for  7  days. 
If  I  worked  28  days  get  $64.48 ;  off  two  days  leave,  |59.86. 
Groceries,  |24 ;  rent,  |5 ;  insurance  and  dues,  |5 ;  furniture, 
|12 ;  clothing  |5-|51.00.  I've  been  called  up  six  times ;  four 
for  the  union  I  joined  September  2.  Mr.  Mahoney 
wouldn't  believe  it  when  I  told  him  I  had  not  joined.  A 
union  man  treats  a  union  man  better  than  he  does  a  non- 
union man.  We  don't  treat  scabs  as  well  as  we  do  union 
men.  If  my  motorman  was  not  a  union  man  he  would  be 
a  scab.  I  don't  think  a  non-union  man  is  anything  but  a 
scab.  By  the  union  we  are  able  to  try  all  discharges  before 
the  commission.  If  the  union  is  recognized  they  would  be 
in  a  position  to  require  all  men  to  join  the  union.  Before 
a  man  is  discharged  the  matter  would  have  to  be  investi- 
gated, and  if  they  don't  agree — arbitrate.  I  think  the  com- 
pany should  prove  by  the  spotter  that  the  man  took  the 
money. 


176 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  P.  M.  Porter 

Car  Service  Department  as  Motorman  at  23c  per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  621. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept.  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    HrsMin 

1  9  36       9  36     11  08    10  15 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
20 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time.  198  14  269  54  230  45  276  41  281  40  180  47 

Total  Wages 

Actually 

paid 45  59     62  08     53,07     63  63     64  79     41  59 


9 

36 

12 

57 

9 

36 

10 

15 

9 

36 

11 

08 

9 

36 

10 

15 

11 

08 

10 

12 

12 

57 

9 

36 

11 

08 

12 

57 

10 

15 

9 

36 

11 

08 

11 

15 

9 

36 

2 

06 

7  20 

10  13 

9 

36 

10 

15 

10  34 

9  36 

9 

36 

9 

36 

10 

15 

10  15 

9  36 

9 

36 

9 

36 

10 

12 

10  15 

9  36 

12 

57 

9 

36 

9 

36 

10 

34 

11 

08 

9 

36 

10 

15 

12  57 

9 

36 

5 

45 

11 

08 

10 

15 

10  15 

11  08 

9 

36 

9 

36 

9 

36 

10  12 

9  36 

7 

00 

12 

57 

9 

36 

10 

15 

10  34 

9  36 

4 

42 

11 

08 

9 

36 

10 

15 

9 

36 

13  28 

1 

56 

10 

12 

9  36 

12 

57 

9 

36 

9 

36 

10 

34 

9  36 

9  36 

11 

08 

9 

36 

12 

57 

10 

15 

8  16 

11  57 

9 

36 

9 

36 

11 

08 

10 

15 

8  16 

11  08 

9 

36 

9 

36 

9 

36 

10  15 

12  57 

9  36 

9 

36 

12 

57 

9 

36 

10 

15 

11  08 

9  36 

11 

08 

9 

36 

10 

15 

8  16 

9  36 

9 

36 

9 

36 

9 

36 

10 

12 

9  36 

9  36 

7 

58 

9 

36 

9 

36 

10 

34 

9  36 

9  36 

11 

08 

9 

36 

10 

12 

10 

15 

12  57 

1 

50 

9 

36 

10 

34 

10 

15 

9  36 

3  04 

9 

36 

9 

36 

10 

15 

12  57 

9  36 

9 

36 

12 

57 

10 

45 

11  08 

9 

53 

11 

08 

11 

19 

177 

Age,  28;  married;  two  children.  Worked  this  time  four 
years.  Worked  a  year  once  before.  I  get  |16.50  for  7  days. 
Kent,  18.75;  grocery  bill,  |5.00  a  week.  I've  had  to  work 
overtime.  The  reason  was  the  man  that  was  to  relieve  me 
quit  and  they  had  no  extra  men  to  take  my  run.  I  always 
thought  they  didn't  pay  wages  enough.  Joined  union  Oc- 
tober 29.    "I  don't  know  where  I  could  make  as  much." 


178 


Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  W.  B.  Akard, 

Car  Service  Department  as  Motorman  at  21c  per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  165. 


Date 
1 

2 
3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time.  275  59  310  05  312  23  296  57  308  54  251  16 
Total  Actu- 
ually  paid  57  96     65  12     65  60     63  36    64  87     52  77 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

8  33 

10 

26 

10 

00 

12 

35 

10 

11 

8  17 

10 

26 

9 

34 

10 

11 

10 

11 

8  17 

10 

26 

9 

33 

10 

11 

10 

11 

8  17 

9 

15 

10 

00 

10 

11 

12 

02 

8  17 

10 

26 

10 

00 

10 

11 

12 

35 

8  17 

8 

42 

10 

00 

12 

02 

10 

11 

9  38 

10 

26 

10 

00 

12 

35 

10 

11 

7  05 

10 

26 

10 

00 

10 

11 

10 

11 

12  02 

8  17 

10 

26 

9 

34 

10 

11 

10 

11 

12  35 

8  17 

10 

26 

9 

33 

16 

24 

10 

11 

10  11 

8  17 

10 

26 

10 

00 

7 

14 

12 

02 

7  50 

11  57 

10 

26 

10 

00 

10 

11 

10  11 

8  17 

9 

08 

10 

00 

12 

02 

10 

11 

10  11 

9  38 

10 

26 

10 

00 

1 

44 

10 

11 

10  11 

9  23 

10 

00 

10 

00 

10 

11 

12  02 

10  26 

10 

00 

9 

34 

10 

11 

12  35 

10  26 

10 

00 

9 

56 

10 

11 

10 

11 

10  11 

10  26 

10 

00 

10 

00 

10 

11 

12 

02 

10  11 

10  26 

9 

34 

10 

00 

10 

11 

12 

35 

10  11 

10  26 

9 

33 

10 

00 

12 

02 

10 

11 

10  11 

10  26 

10 

00 

10 

00 

12 

35 

10 

11 

10  11 

10 

00 

10 

00 

10 

11 

10 

11 

12  02 

10  25 

10 

00 

9 

34 

10 

11 

10 

11 

12  35 

10  26 

10 

00 

9 

33 

10 

11 

10 

12 

10  11 

10  26 

10 

00 

10 

11 

10 

11 

12 

02 

10  11 

10  26 

9 

34 

10 

11 

10 

11 

12 

35 

10  11 

10  26 

9 

33 

10 

11 

12 

02 

10 

11 

12  35 

10  26 

10 

00 

10 

11 

12 

35 

10  11 

9  34 

10 

00 

10 

11 

10 

11 

10 

11 

12  02 

10  26 

10 

00 

12 

02 

10 

11 

10 

11 

12  35 

10  00 

12 

35 

9 

09 

179 

Motorman ;  wife  and  four  children,  ages  IS.  My  grocery 
bill  f  5  to  |6  a  week.  I  have  been  in  merchandise  business. 
I'm  saving  to  get  back  in  business  again.  Average  saving 
$100  a  year.  I  had  some  little  grievance,  while  I  was  an 
extra.  ( Gave  pay  roll  in  detail. )  Conditions  ought  to  be 
better  for  extra  men. 


180 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  G.  D.  Miller, 

Car  Service  Department  as  Motorman  at  20c  per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  195. 

June 
Date 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time.  275  31  218  35  294  22  266  22  252  14  141  09 
Total  Actu- 
ally  paid.  55  11     43  72     59  88     53  28     50     45    28  23 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

11  07 

6  10 

11 

15 

8  08 

8  51 

13  30 

10  00 

10 

08 

9  36 

8  51 

9  32 

14  23 

12 

13 

9  36 

8  51 

11  05 

12  31 

9 

26 

9  36 

11  34 

14  11 

7  04 

6 

10 

9  36 

48 

5  24 

11  04 

7  24 

10  59 

9  45 

7  13 

10  26 

10  54 

8  51 

10  15 

11  14 

6 

32 

8  51 

4  08 

6  00 

10 

59 

9  36 

8  51 

9  18 

9  36 

8  51 

6  47 

7 

58 

9  36 

11  34 

15  50 

8 

06 

8  08 

12  07 

9 

08 

10  59 

8  51 

10  26 

9  19 

10 

11 

11  08 

8  51 

8  08 

5 

24 

9  50 

8  51 

8  53 

5  46 

14 

08 

9  36 

7  57 

9  22 

11  44 

11 

28 

9  36 

3  39 

8  53 

5  18 

11  41 

71 

46 

9  36 

10  19 

8  53 

10  04 

6  36 

9 

59 

9  36 

48 

8  53 

11  52 

9  22 

11 

01 

10  59 

8  51 

8  53 

10  26 

12 

12 

11  08 

8  51 

8  53 

10  12 

14  31 

8 

51 

9  36 

8  51 

8  53 

10  58 

8  36 

10 

47 

9  36 

8  51 

9  22 

3  18 

8  08 

8  53 

8  36 

8  51 

11  22 

8  51 

9  36 

11  34 

8  53 

4  00 

13  56 

8  51 

9  36 

8  08 

11  06 

11  08 

8  51 

10  59 

8  51 

9  22 

9  42 

12  07 

8  51 

8  51 

9  36 

8  47 

8  51 

8  51 

8  51 

10  59 

10  56 

14  18 

11 

18 

8  51 

8  51 

10  58 

12  07 

8  08 

9  36 

181 

Age,  24;  wife;  1  child.  Took  me  four  months  to  get 
through  the  extra  list.  I  worked  most  all  the  time.  Live 
22  squares  from  barn.  In  rooming  house ;  pay  $4.50  a  week 
rent;  groceries,  |4.50  a  week.  Worked  Beech  Grove,  |2.00 
a  day ;  Pan  Handle,  |1.70  to  |1.75  a  day ;  Kokomo,  17c,  for 
L.  E.  &  W. ;  Kokomo  as  a  butcher,  f  15.00  a  week  for  short 
time.  "Good  places  paying  |15.00  a  week  are  hard  to  get." 
Joined  Union  September  27 . 


182 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  T.  Campbell, 

Car  Service  Department  as  Conductor  at  20c  per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  750. 


Date 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 


Jun«     July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Hrs  Min  Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

10 

11 

11 

24 

1  51 

10 

05 

12 

49 

11  34 

8 

00 

7 

34 

7  11 

7 

21 

10 

00 

12  53 

10 

00 

5 

45 

9 

30 

8 

57 

12  44 

3 

45 

11 

17 

10  32 

10 

32 

2  22 

4  14 

11 

26 

8 

43 

10  13 

23  23 

8 

18 

10 

37 

13  20 

11  05 

10 

02 

11 

00 

11  22 

11  05 

13 

13 

8 

52 

11  20 

11  05 

11 

47 

12 

34 

3  58 

13  47 

4 

14 

7 

20 

10  08 

11  05 

1 

55 

9 

30 

10 

10 

5  45 

10  32 

10 

11 

11 

03 

9 

30 

11  29 

11  29 

12 

48 

14 

21 

8  39 

11  05 

11 

48 

11 

05 

10 

15 

11  29 

11  05 

11 

12 

11 

05 

15  55 

11  05 

4 

42 

11 

05 

12 

45 

12  01 

11  05 

4 

37 

12 

56 

10 

50 

4  43 

11  05 

11 

18 

11 

05 

4 

34 

10  47 

10  32 

11 

28 

10 

32 

10 

47 

10  58 

11  29 

13 

20 

12 

51 

11 

20 

11  05 

11  22 

11 

05 

4 

34 

10  37 

11  05 

14 

23 

11 

29 

11  58 

11  05 

9 

04 

12 

56 

13 

02 

11  00 

11  29 

10 

01 

12 

56 

11 

25 

4  14 

13  37 

3 

45 

1 

51 

11 

00 

11  28 

10  32 

10 

02 

9 

33 

12 

51 

11  29 

3 

45 

10 

39 

Total  Time.      141  18  317  20  273  46  262  23  261  19 
Total  Actu- 
ally  Paid.       28  26  63  47  54  75  52  47  52  27 


183 

Age,  22.  Called  to  testify  to  trouble  between  Dain  and 
men  in  auto.  I've  worked  5  months.  I  couldn't  say  whether 
I  would  report  a  union  man  or  not.  The  motormen  and 
other  guys  reported  to  the  police. 


184 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  A.  Brown, 

Car  Service  Department  as  Conductor,  at  25c  Per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  506. 

June 
Date 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 

le 

17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time  319  40  337  28  338  18  255  43  314  24 
Total  Actually  Paid: 

179  92  184  37  |84  57  |63  94  |78  59 

President  of  union.    "I  joined  Nov.  1,  in  morning;  was 
elected  in  the  evening.    I  don't  know  who  called  the  strike." 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct.    Nov. 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min  Hrs  Min 

11  32 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11 

32 

10  38 

10  38 

10 

38 

11 

28 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10  38 

10 

38 

11 

32 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10  38 

11 

32 

10 

38 

11 

28 

10  38 

11 

28 

10 

38 

11 

33 

10  38 

11 

32 

10 

38 

11 

28 

10 

38 

11  28 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11  32 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10  38 

10 

38 

10  38 

10 

38 

11 

28 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10  38 

10 

38 

11 

32 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10  38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11 

28 

10  38 

11 

28 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11 

32 

10  38 

11 

32 

10 

38 

11 

28 

10 

38 

11  28 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11 

32 

10 

38 

11  32 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10  38 

10 

38 

11 

28 

10 

38 

10  38 

10  38 

10 

38 

11 

32 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11  33 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11 

28 

11  33 

11 

28 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11 

32 

11 

32 

10 

38 

11 

28 

10 

38 

11  16 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11 

32 

10 

38 

11  32 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10  38 

10 

38 

11 

28 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10  38 

10 

38 

11 

32 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10  38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11 

28 

11  33 

11 

28 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11 

32 

11  33 

11 

32 

10 

38 

11 

28 

10 

38 

11  28 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11 

32 

10 

38 

11  32 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

10  38 

10 

38 

11 

28 

10  38 

10 

38 

10 

38 

11 

32 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  T.  Linkskey, 
Car  service  Department  as  Conductor,  Badge  No.  334. 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

I>a$e 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

11 

35 

11 

13 

11 

27 

2 

10 

40 

11 

13 

8 

36 

3 

10 

40 

11 

13 

8 

15 

11 

13 

4 

10 

40 

11  29 

11 

27 

11 

13 

5 

10 

40 

11 

13 

11 

27 

11 

29 

6 

10  40 

11 

29 

11 

27 

11 

13 

7 

11  45 

11 

13 

11  27 

10 

59 

11 

13 

8 

11 

35 

11 

13 

3 

20 

11 

27 

10  13 

9 

10 

40 

11 

27 

11 

27 

11  29 

10 

10 

40 

10 

59 

11 

27 

11 

13 

11  13 

11 

10 

40 

11 

18 

11 

27 

11 

27 

11 

13 

11  13 

12 

11 

13 

11 

27 

11 

27 

11 

29 

11  13 

13 

10 

40 

11 

29 

11 

27 

11 

13 

11  13 

14 

11 

45 

11 

45 

11 

27 

10 

59 

11  13 

15 

11 

30 

10 

32 

11 

13 

11  13 

16 

11 

54 

11 

27 

11 

13 

5 

12 

17 

11 

13 

10 

57 

11 

13 

11 

13 

11  13 

18 

11 

13 

10  57 

11 

13 

11  13 

19 

10 

57 

11 

29 

11  13 

20 

10 

59 

11 

13 

11 

13 

13  06 

21 

11 

13 

10 

57 

11 

29 

11 

13 

22 

11 

29 

10 

57 

11 

13 

11 

13 

11  13 

23 

11 

13 

11 

13 

11 

13 

11  29 

24 

11 

13 

11 

13 

11 

13 

11  13 

25 

11 

13 

11 

27 

11 

13 

11 

13 

11  13 

26 

11 

13 

11 

27 

11 

13 

11 

29 

27 

11 

13 

11 

13 

11 

13 

28 

11 

13 

11 

27 

11 

29 

11 

13 

11  13 

29 

11 

29 

6 

06 

11 

13 

11  13 

30 

11 

13 

11 

27 

11  29 

31 

11 

27 

9 

46 

Total  Time  301  12  264  34  145  40  247  33  251  35  214  48 
Time  per  hour :  22c  22c  22c  23c  23c  23c 
Total  Actually  Paid: 

27  $58  21  |32  05  |56  92  |57  86  |49  40 


186 

Married;  three  children.  Conductor  3  years  and  four 
months.  "I  worked  on  detail  to  follow  Thorpe.  They  said 
they  couldn't  find  me  except  when  they  gave  the  dollar 
out.  Last  Saturday  a  week  ago  I  was  called  up  to  Mr. 
Mahoney's  office  on  a  charge  of  drinking.  The  hours  and 
wages  didn't  suit  me." 


187 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  C.  Sacks, 

Car  Service  Department  as  Motorman  at  20c  Per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  835. 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Data 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrg  Min 

1 

11 

15 

11 

06 

7 

00 

9 

31 

7  05 

2 

9 

38 

3 

09 

7 

00 

5 

27 

3 

10 

45 

15 

26 

9 

27 

5 

27 

7  05 

4 

6 

11 

14 

29 

7 

00 

9 

13 

10  10 

5 

12 

33 

7 

00 

5 

27 

11  04 

6 

9 

39 

9 

54 

1 

42 

13 

02 

2  44 

7 

3 

22 

11 

13 

10  37 

8 

32 

7  05 

8 

12 

24 

7 

05 

7 

00 

17 

00 

7  05 

10  15 

9 

7 

53 

11 

34 

9 

22 

16 

51 

9  22 

10 

10 

11 

7 

05 

9 

52 

13 

43 

7  05 

11 

5 

46 

10 

12 

10 

25 

16 

43 

7  05 

9  27 

12 

11 

27 

9 

02 

9 

41 

10  17 

10  53 

13 

6 

11 

10 

11 

11 

59 

13 

02 

7  05 

1  43 

14 

13 

41 

10 

11 

9 

48 

7 

37 

7  05 

15 

4 

18 

10 

32 

5 

27 

7  05 

10  20 

16 

10  22 

10 

22 

13 

02 

5  27 

10  08 

17 

5 

03 

10 

22 

11 

37 

9 

24 

5  25 

11  40 

18 

10  26 

6 

30 

5 

27 

6  26 

1  42 

19 

14 

37 

10  32 

9 

08 

5 

27 

9  23 

20 

10 

12 

11 

29 

5 

27 

5 

57 

9  52 

21 

12 

02 

8 

57 

5 

27 

10  03 

22 

3 

36 

5 

27 

5 

27 

11  34 

23 

9 

27 

7 

00 

13 

02 

5 

27 

5  50 

24 

7 

18 

10 

00 

7 

05 

9  33 

25 

9 

29 

10 

20 

5 

27 

11  40 

26 

14 

25 

10 

00 

8 

19 

7 

05 

1  42 

27 

5 

24 

12 

04 

9 

37 

10 

10 

12  04 

28 

9 

51 

7 

00 

8 

28 

11 

10 

9  29 

29 

10 

03 

8 

57 

8 

19 

7  00 

30 

9 

27 

11 

04 

13 

02 

7 

05 

12  10 

31 

7 

00 

8 

00 

Total  Time  250  44  290  01  252  53  240  32  109  51  185  50 
Total  Actually  Paid : 

|50  15  |58  01  |50  57  |48  11  |21  97  |37  17 

Age  21.    Called  to  testify  to  a  fight  between  Cook  and 
Gorman. 


1S8 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  W.  Euliss, 

Car  Service  Department  as  Conductor  at  25c  Per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  448. 


Date 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time  279  54  333  58  236  38  128  04  203  14  242  32 
Total  Actually  Paid : 

|69  98  183  50  |59  16  |32  02  |50  81  $60  64 


Jun<e 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Mir. 

10  34 

10  39 

10 

10 

10  39 

10  39 

11  29 

10 

39 

10  39 

10  39 

10  39 

10  39 

10  34 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  39 

11  29 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10 

34 

10  39 

10  34 

10 

39 

10 

39 

11  29 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  34 

10  39 

10  39 

10 

39 

10  55 

10  39 

10  39 

11 

29 

10 

34 

10  34 

10  39 

10  34 

10  46 

11  47 

10  39 

10 

39 

11 

11 

11  11 

10  39 

10  29 

10 

34 

11  11 

10  39 

10  34 

10 

39 

11 

11 

11  47 

11  29 

10  39 

10 

39 

11 

11 

11  11 

10  34 

10  39 

10 

39 

11  11 

10  39 

10  39 

11 

29 

11 

47 

10  34 

10  39 

10  39 

10  34 

11 

47 

11  11 

10  39 

10  39 

10 

39 

11 

54 

11  47 

10  39 

11  29 

10 

39 

10 

34 

11  11 

10  34 

10 

39 

11 

47 

11  29 

10  39 

10 

34 

11  11 

10  34 

11  33 

10 

39 

11 

47 

11  11 

10  39 

10  39 

10 

39 

11 

11 

10  34 

10  39 

10  39 

10 

39 

3 

18 

11  11 

10  39 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

39 

11 

11 

10  53 

10  39 

11  29 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  38 

10  39 

10  34 

10 

39 

11 

29 

10  34 

11  29 

10  39 
10  39 

10 
10 

39 
39 

10  38 
10  38 

10  39 

10  39 
10  39 

10  34 

189 

Age  40;  with  Company  12  years.  "I  felt  like  we  ought 
to  have  more  wages.  Went  to  Mr,  Mahoney.  He  treated  me 
very  cordially  (see  testimony)  October  15.  I  suggested 
wages  to  be  20  cents  to  28  cents  in  seven  years. 
If  Company  employs  a  man  and  the  union  don't  take  him, 
he  loses  his  job.  If  the  finding  is  for  an  open  shop,  I  would 
work  with  him,  but  he  would  be  called  a  scab.  I  doubt 
whether  you  can  have  an  open  shop  here.  Company  al- 
ways treated  me  right.  Am  paying  for  a  piece  of  property. 
I  would  work  long  hours  willingly  for  extra  for  overtime. 
I  wouldn't  be  willing  to  work  with  a  non-union  man,  but 
would  do  so  if  Commission  so  decided.  I  would  call  him 
a  traitor  if  he  didn't  join  us.  I  wouldn't  have  anything  to 
do  with  him.  I  don't  believe  a  non-union  man  can  work 
here  with  any  satisfaction. 


190 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  O.  Thomas. 

Car  Service  Department  as  Motorman  at  22c  Per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  355. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept.  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     HrsMin    Hrs  Min 


1 

10 

04 

10 

22 

10 

22 

2 

10 

03 

10 

04 

10 

22 

10 

22 

3 

10 

03 

12 

22 

6 

10 

10 

22 

4 

10 

03 

11 

17 

10 

22 

10 

22 

5 

12 

36 

9 

51 

10  22 

6 

10 

03 

11 

17 

10 

22 

10 

22 

7 

9 

51 

8 

04 

10 

22 

10  22 

8 

11 

17 

5 

34 

10 

22 

6 

16 

10  27 

9 

6 

56 

11 

57 

10 

22 

10 

22 

6  10 

10 

10 

03 

6  10 

10 

22 

10  22 

10  27 

11 

10 

03 

10 

22 

10 

22 

10  27 

12 

8 

00 

9 

49 

10 

22 

10 

22 

10  27 

13 

10 

04 

9 

08 

5 

40 

9 

52 

10  22 

10  27 

14 

9 

51 

9 

40 

6 

10 

10 

22 

10  27 

15 

11 

17 

9 

40 

10 

22 

10 

22 

10  27 

16 

10 

04 

9 

40 

10 

22 

10 

22 

6  10 

17 

10 

04 

9 

40 

10 

22 

10 

22 

10  27 

18 

9 

40 

10  22 

10  27 

19 

12 

07 

9 

49 

10 

22 

10  27 

20 

10 

04 

9 

38 

10 

22 

10  27 

21 

9 

51 

10 

22 

10 

22 

22 

11 

17 

10 

22 

10 

22 

10 

22 

10  27 

23 

10 

04 

10 

22 

6  10 

24 

11 

47 

5  40 

10  27 

25 

10 

04 

10 

22 

10 

22 

26 

8 

54 

10 

22 

10 

22 

6 

10 

10  27 

27 

11 

27 

6 

10 

10 

22 

10 

22 

6  10 

28 

4 

00 

10 

22 

10 

22 

10  27 

29 

11 

17 

10 

22 

30 

10  04 

10 

22 

6  10 

31 

10 

22 

Total  Time  281  14  251  16  111  18  188  10  192  46  187  35 
Total  Actually  Paid: 

|61  88  155  28  |24  48  |41  40  |42  40  |41  47 


191 

Age  28 ;  motorman  2  years  and  7  months.  "In  August  I 
was  doing  special  work ;  I  had  no  gun.  I  bought  a  black- 
jack on  my  own  responsibility.  I  had  no  grievance  but 
thought  I  ought  to  have  better  wages. 


id2 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  C.  Crane, 

Oar  Service  Department  as  a  Motorman,  at  21c  Per  Hour. 

Badge  No.  391. 

Jun« 
Date 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time  272  28  305  22  127  36  172  14  208  17  146  41 
Total  Actually  Paid: 

$57  22  f64  13  f26  81  |36  17  $43  74  $30  72 

Motorman  2  years.    "I  did  detail  work ;  I  was  just  to  fol- 
low Thorpe  and  Orr  and  see  what  they  did. 


Jun« 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct 

Nov. 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Mil 

Hrs  Min 

8  08 

11 

14 

9 

27 

11  14 

11 

14 

12 

33 

11  14 

11 

55 

11 

15 

9 

27 

11  14 

9 

27 

12  33 

11  14 

11 

10 

9  27 

11  14 

9 

07 

9 

27 

11  14 

11 

10 

11 

15 

9 

27 

7  57 

11 

10 

9 

27 

9 

38 

2 

31 

11  14 

11 

10 

12 

33 

10 

47 

11  14 

11 

10 

11 

15 

10 

47 

11 

10 

9 

27 

10 

47 

9  41 

11  14 

11 

11 

9 

27 

10  47 

11  14 

11 

18 

9 

27 

12 

33 

9 

27 

11  14 

10 

12 

11 

15 

9 

27 

9  41 

7  32 

11 

09 

10 

03 

9 

41 

12  33 

11  14 

9 

27 

13 

51 

10 

15 

9 

41 

3  09 

11 

29 

9 

41 

9  41 

11  14 

9 

27 

9  41 

12 

41 

7  32 

9  41 

11  14 

12 

07 

9 

41 

9  41 

11  14 

9 
9 

46 
46 

11 

15 

9 
9 

41 
41 

9  41 

11  14 

4 

13 

9 

27 

9 

41 

11  14 

10 

30 

2 

31 

9 

41 

9  41 

11  14 

9 

27 

9 

27 

12 

33 

9  41 

11  14 

12 

33 

9 

27 

9  41 

11  14 

11 

15 

12 

33 

9 

41 

7  32 

11  14 

9 

27 

9 

41 

9  41 

9  48 

9 
9 

27 
27 

9 

27 

9 
9 
9 

41 
41 
41 

12  33 
7  32 

193 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  K.  E.  Davis 

Car  Service  Department  as  Motorman  at  20c  Per.  Hour. 

Badge  No.  141. 


June     July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Date 

Hrs  Min  Hrs 

Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

10 

50 

2 

9 

44 

3 

10 

57 

4 

11 

15 

12 

23 

5 

6 

7 

58 

13 

05 

10 

57 

7 

10 

51 

10 

00 

10 

55 

8 

12 

07 

9 

10 

50 

2 

19 

9 

33 

10  52 

10 

10 

54 

10 

48 

5 

46 

11 

11 

13 

9 

26 

11  04 

12 

10 

25 

7 

30 

10 

20 

2  42 

13 

5 

46 

3 

48 

14 

8 

06 

8 

00 

11 

25 

15 

11 

44 

5 

19 

16 

12 

29 

9 

39 

IT 

](» 

48 

4 

32 

1S 

6 

10 

11 

52 

12 

00 

lO 

11 

37 

5 

24 

10 

00 

?.o 

8 

14 

9 

55 

11 

44 

21 

8 

51 

11 

50 

5 

24 

22 

10 

04 

9 

48 

11 

10 

23 

13 

41 

12 

32 

3 

18 

24 

11 

17 

3 

42 

9 

37 

25 

7 

24 

3 

02 

11 

54 

10 

41 

26 

13 

49 

15 

13 

11 

07 

27 

12 

OS 

2 

19 

28 

2 

42 

10 

04 

29 

14 

23 

9 

36 

7 

45 

2  00 

30 

6 

00 

5 

15 

9 

25 

31 

4 

03 

8 

51 

Total  Time  48  21  206  48  185  27  245  27     26  38 

Total  Actually  Paid: 

|9  67  $41  36  137  09  |49  09     |5  33 
Days  ofle  10  11  4 


194 

Age  24;  motorman  3^  years,  except  10  months.  "In 
August  was  on  special  duty.  Long  said  follow  the  bunch. 
I  saw  no  fights  except  the  one  in  front  of  Stegemeier's. 
Except  when  I  did  extra  work  in  the  pressing  parlor  I  am 
making  more  than  I  ever  did  in  my  life.  With  link  Belt 
fll  a  week;  Mais  Auto  Co.,  f9  a  week;  Pressing  parlor  in 
K.  C,  |8.00  a  week.  Street  car  at  K.  O.  at  20c;  no  pay  for 
noon  relief.    I  earn  now  |11  a  week. 


195 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  R.  A.  Staley, 
Oar  Service  Department  as  Conductor,  Badge  No.  702. 

Date 
1 

2 
3 

4 
5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time  301  39  303  22  227  23  304  34  252  44  37  08 
Per  Hour:    21c    21c    21c    21c    21c    21c 

158  30 
22c 
Total  Actually  Paid : 

34  $63  71  |47  75  |63  96  |53  08  |42  67 


Jun« 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Hrs  Mln 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

10  36 

10 

09 

10 

13 

11 

24 

10  09 

10 

09 

10  25 

10 

15 

10  15 

10  09 

14 

06 

11 

24 

10 

15 

10  15 

10  09 

10  36 

10 

14 

10 

15 

10  25 

10  09 

10 

21 

10 

13 

10  09 

11 

24 

1 

50 

10  25 

10  21 

10 

09 

10 

13 

11 

24 

10  36 

10 

09 

10 

09 

10 

15 

10  15 

9  20 

10  09 

10 

09 

4 

18 

10 

15 

10  30 

10  09 

10 

09 

10 

15 

10  15 

9  10 

10  09 

10 

09 

10 

15 

10  25 

8  23 

10  09 

10 

21 

10 

15 

11  24 

10  15 

10  09 

10 

36 

11 

10 

10  15 

10  21 

10  09 

11 

24 

10  36 

10 

09 

10 

15 

10  15 

10  25 

10  09 

10 

13 

10 

15 

10  09 

10 

13 

10 

15 

10  15 

10  15 

10  09 

10 

13 

10 

15 

10  25 

10  15 

10  09 

10 

25 

10 

15 

10 

15 

11  24 

10  15 

10  09 

11 

24 

14 

15 

10 

25 

10  15 

10  15 

10  21 

10 

13 

14 

35 

11 

24 

10  15 

10  15 

10  36 

10 

13 

10 

15 

10 

15 

10  15 

10  25 

10  09 

10 

13 

10 

25 

10 

15 

10  15 

11  24 

10 

13 

10 

36 

10 

15 

10  15 

10  15 

10  09 

10 

13 

10 

15 

10 

15 

10  25 

10  15 

10  09 

10 

25 

10 

15 

10 

15 

11  24 

10  15 

14  24 

14 

55 

10 

25 

10  15 

12  12 

10  21 

10 

15 

11 

24 

10  15 

10  15 

10  36 

10 

13 

10 

15 

10 

15 

2  22 

10  25 

10  09 

10 

13 

10 

25 

10 

15 

10  15 

11  24 

10 

13 

11 

24 

10  15 

196 

Married ;  conductor  15  months ;  earn  $16.28  if  I  work  7 
days.  Used  to  be  teamster  for  Mr  Shover;  got  $10.50  a 
week.  That's  the  most  I  ever  made  until  I  went  with  the 
company. 


197 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  J.   S.   Cunningham,   Car 

Service  Department  as  Motorman  at  20  cents 

per  Hour.    Badge  No.  537. 


June     July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct.    Nov. 

Date 

Hrs  Min  Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min  Hrs  Min 

1 

10 

58 

7 

00 

2 

11 

15 

10 

20 

3 

3 

27 

9 

01 

4 

10 

53 

10  25 

5 

5 

20 

4  30 

6 

11 

20 

9 

41 

7 

11 

14 

8 

10 

25 

15 

00 

9 

3 

05 

17 

15 

10 

11 

17 

16 

50 

11 

4 

29 

2 

43 

15 

00 

12 

10 

50 

10 

17 

7  46 

13 

9 

22 

10 

55 

2 

31 

14 

5 

20 

7 

05 

15 

11 

05 

10 

12 

9 

51 

16 

10 

54 

10 

23 

3 

10 

17 

9 

29 

9 

07 

18 

11 

13 

9 

26 

19 

4 

55 

9 

46 

20 

11 

32 

11 

20 

21 

9 

17 

9 

59 

22 

10 

25 

23 

10 

23 

6 

26 

24 

9 

41 

12 

30 

25 

5  27 

9 

59 

26 

10 

45 

10 

12 

27 

8 

48 

1 

42 

28 

10 

17 

9 

59 

29 

7 

18 

11 

08 

30 

9 

53 

5 

34 

31 

11 

08 

12 

04 

Total  Time  182  06  280  26  138  20 

Total  Actually  Paid. 

$36  42  156  08  $27  67 


198 

Motorman — I've  worked  through  the  extra  list  3  times 
and  am  starting  now  on  my  4th  time.  I  always  felt  there 
should  be  shorter  hours.  After  a  man  works  4  to  5  hours 
he  gets  pretty  tired.  Can  work  8  to  10  hours.  I  want  this 
job  back  if  they  make  shorter  hours.  I've  worked  at 
Taggarts — averaged  |10  to  |12  a  week.  Was  in  hog  cholera 
business.  Now  Pahuds — Florists — 114.00  a  week.  They 
told  me  to  go  to  Mr.  Mahoney's  office  and  I  refused  to  go. 


199 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  C.  L.  Chaille,  Gar  Service 

Department  as  Conductor  at  25  cents  per 

Hour.     Badge  No.  590. 


Date 
1 

2 
3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time  288  05  289  25  198  59  282  27  294  44  222  55 
Total  Actually  Paid. 

$72  02  172  36  |49  75  |70  61  |73  69  $55  73 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oc 

!t. 

Nov. 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

12  20 

12 
12 

20 
20 

10 

11 

17 
29 

10 

17 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

12  20 

12 

20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

11 

59 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

12  20 

12  20 

10 

17 

11 

29 

10 

17 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10  27 

12  20 

12 

20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

12  20 

12 

20 

11 

29 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10  17 

12  20 

12 

20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10  17 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

11 

59 

10  17 

12  20 

11 

29 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10  17 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

11 

29 

10 

17 

10  17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10  17 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

11  59 

12  20 

10 

17 

11 

29 

10 

17 

10 

17 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10  17 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

11 

59 

10  17 

12  20 

11 

29 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10  17 

12  35 

10 

17 

11 

29 

10 

17 

10  17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10  17 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

11  59 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10  17 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10  lY 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

11 

59 

10  17 

12  20 

11 

29 

10 

17 

10 

17 

11  59 

10 

17 

11 

29 

10 

17 

10  17 

4  10 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10 

17 

10  17 

12  20 

10 

17 

10 

17 

11  59 

200 


,«^^^,^ 


Age  29.  Conductor  8  years.  I  joined  the  union  the 
Friday  night  before  the  strike.  I  thought  I  ought  to  have 
better  wages  and  hours.  Mr.  Mahoney  said  he  had  a  re- 
port fair  week  that  I  was  short.  Finally  said  he  would 
give  me  the  benefit  of  the  doubt.  I  think  there  should  be  an 
arbitration  whenever  a  man  is  discharged. 


201 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  W.  F.  White,  Car  Service 

Department  as  Conductor,  at  25  cents  per 

Hour.    Badge  No.  474. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept.  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Mln      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min 

1  11  32     11  14     10  25     11  32     10  25 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 


11  40 

11 

14 

10  50 

10  25 

10  25 

11  40 

11  32 

10 

25 

10  25 

11  40 

11 

32 

11  14 

10  50 

11  40 

10 

50 

10  25 

10  25 

11  40 

11 

32 

10  25 

10 

50 

10  25 

10  50 

11 

14 

10  25 

11 

32 

10  25 

11  32 

11 

14 

10  25 

12 

10 

10  25 

10  50 

12 

10 

10  25 

11  40 

11 

14 

11  32 

14 

10 

10  25 

11  40 

11 

14 

12 

07 

10  50 

6  40 

10 

50 

10  25 

11 

41 

11  04 

11 

32 

10  25 

10 

50 

10  25 

10  50 

11 

35 

10  25 

10  25 

11  32 

11  14 

11 

14 

11  20 

11  14 

10  50 

10  25 

11  20 

11  14 

11  32 

10 

25 

11  20 

11  14 

12  05 

10 

25 

10  50 

11  14 

10  25 

10 

25 

11  04 

11  14 

10  25 

10 

50 

11  20 

10  50 

11 

32 

11  20 

11  32 

10 

53 

10  25 

10 

25 

11  20 

11  14 

10  50 

10 

25 

11  20 

11  14 

11  32 

10 

25 

11  20 

11  14 

10  25 

10 

25 

10  50 

11  14 

10  25 

10 

25 

10  25 

10 

50 

11  20 

10  50 

10  25 

11 

32 

11  20 

11  32 

11 

14 

10  25 

10 

25 

11  20 

11  14 

11 

14 

10  50 

10 

25 

11  20 

10  25 

11  32 

11  20 

Total  Time  301  40  179  01  313  03  308  50  316  58 
Total  Actually  Paid. 

|75  41  |44  76  |78  26  |77  22  |79  25 


202 

Age  42.  I  never  had  any  one  say  anything  out  of  the 
way  to  me.  I  saw  the  necessity  of  saving  and  have  my 
own  home.  I've  tried  to  get  on  the  interurban,  but  I've 
only  made  2  or  3  attempts  to  get  another  job.  I  had  a 
fear  I  wouldn't  make  as  much  at  some  other  employment. 


203 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  R.  Belch,  Car  Service  De- 
partment as  Conductor  at  25  cents  per 
Hour.    Badge  No.  400. 


Date 
1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time  300  27  308  20  297  37  276  29  328  43 
Total  Actually  Paid. 

175  12  177  08  174  41  $69  13  |82  18 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct.    Nov. 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min  Hrs  Min 

10  36 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

36 

10  39 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

35 

10 

39 

10  39 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

36 

10 

39 

10  39 

10  39 

10 

36 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  35 

10  39 

10 

35 

10 

39 

10  36 

10  39 

10  36 

10 

39 

10 

35 

10  39 

13  17 

10 

39 

10  39 

10  39 

10  36 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

35 

10 

39 

11  30 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

36 

10 

39 

11  56 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  28 

10  39 

10 

35 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  36 

10  39 

10  36 

10 

39 

10 

35 

10  28 

10  35 

10 

39 

10  39 

10  28 

10  36 

10 

39 

10  28 

10  39 

10 

39 

10  35 

10 

39 

10  28 

10  39 

10 

36 

10  39 

10  28 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  28 

10  39 

10 

35 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  36 

10  39 

10 

36 

10 

39 

10 

35 

10  28 

10  35 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  36 

10  28 

10  36 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  28 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

35 

10  28 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

36 

10 

39 

10  28 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  28 

10  39 

10 

35 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  36 

10  39 

10 

36 

10 

39 

10 

35 

10  28 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

36 

10  28 

10  36 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10 

39 

10  28 

10  39 

10 

39 

10 

35 

10 

39 

10  28 

10 

39 

10 

36 

10  28 

204 

I've  made  monthly  payments  on  a  home.  My  personal 
relations  have  been  agreeable.  I've  taken  an  examination 
for  post  office  clerk.  If  I  get  it,  it  will  pay  |800  a  year. 
I  don't  know  anything  I  could  get  and  fill  now  that  would 
pay  me  as  well  as  my  present  wages. 


205 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Joe  Smith,  Shop  Department 
as  Car  Inspector  at  20  cents  per  Hour. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept.  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min 


1 

10 

11 

11 

11 

13 

2 

10 

10 

10 

11 

13 

3 

10 

10 

10 

11 

13 

4 

10 

10 

10 

10 

13 

5 

10 

10 

11 

11 

13 

6 

10 

10 

10 

10 

15 

7 

10 

10 

10 

17 

13 

8 

10 

10 

10 

11 

13 

9 

10 

10 

10 

10 

13 

13 

10 

10 

10 

11 

10 

13 

13 

11 

10 

10 

10 

10 

13 

13 

12 

11 

10 

10 

10 

14 

13 

13 

15 

11 

10 

13 

13 

14 

10 

10 

10 

10 

13 

13 

15 

10 

10 

10 

11 

13 

13 

16 

10 

10 

10 

12 

13 

13 

17 

10 

11 

11 

10 

13 

13 

18 

10 

10 

11 

10 

13 

13 

19 

11 

10 

10 

10 

13 

13 

20 

10 

11 

11 

10 

13 

13 

21 

10 

10 

10 

10 

14 

13 

22 

10 

10 

11 

23 

13 

13 

23 

10 

11 

10 

11 

13 

13 

24 

10 

11 

23 

11 

13 

13 

25 

12 

11 

11 

10 

13 

13 

26 

10 

10 

11 

23 

13 

13 

27 

23 

11 

11 

13 

13 

13 

28 

10 

10 

11 

13 

13 

13 

29 

11 

23 

10 

13 

13 

30 

11 

10 

10 

13 

13 

13 

31 

12 

15 

Total  Time  314 

323 

329 

345 

380 

286 

292  hours  at 

20c 

21c 

21c 

21c 

21c 

221/2 

22  hrs.  at      21c 
Actual  Wages  Paid : 

$63  02  $67  83  $69  09  $72  45  $79  80  $64  35 


206 

Car  Inspector  with  company  over  3  years.  I  work  night 
and  13  hours.  I  have  worked  36  hours  without  relief. 
Night  men  in  all  other  power  houses  work  12  or  13  hours 
We  have  a  rush  from  7  to  8 — then  12  to  2.  Last  car  comes 
in  at  1 :42.  From  3  until  morning  not  much  to  do.  Used 
to  be  a  switch  and  brakeman.  Quit  to  come  to  shops.  Made 
more  as  a  brakeman,  but  it  was  dangerous  and  wife  didn't 
want  me  to  do  it.  Can't  say  whether  I  would  rather  have 
my  job  or  be  on  the  railroad. 


207 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  John  Boehn,  Shop  Depart- 
ment as  Inspector  at  21  cents  per  Hour. 

Jun«  July  Aug.  Sept.  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  HrsMin     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    HrsMin 

1        13    13    13    13    11 

2 

3 

4 
5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time  380    404    366    390    359    231 

21c  21c  21c  358  hrs.  at  21c  221/2C  24c 
32  hrs.  at  221/20 
Wages  actually  Paid. 

179  80  $84  84  |76  86  |82  38  |80  77  $55  44 


13 

13 

13 

13 

11 

15 

14 

13 

13 

10 

13 

13 

13 

13 

10 

13 

13 

13 

13 

12 

13 

13 

14 

13 

12 

13 

13 

13 

11 

13 

13 

13 

11 

13 

13 

13 

13 

11 

16 

13 

13 

13 

13 

10 

11 

13 

13 

13 

13 

10 

10 

13 

13 

13 

13 

11 

10 

13 

13 

13 

13 

11 

10 

13 

13 

13 

13 

11 

10 

13 

13 

14 

13 

23 

10 

13 

13 

13 

13 

10 

11 

13 

13 

13 

13 

10 

10 

13 

13 

13 

13 

10 

10 

14 

13 

13 

13 

11 

10 

13 

13 

13 

13 

10 

13 

13 

13 

13 

13 

11 

10 

13 

13 

13 

13 

11 

10 

13 

13 

13 

13 

11 

10 

13 

13 

13 

10 

10 

13 

13 

13 

13 

10 

10 

13 

13 

13 

23 

11 

10 

13 

13 

13 

10 

11 

10 

13 

13 

13 

10 

10 

10 

13 

13 

11 

23 

10 

13 

13 

13 

11 

10 

10 

13 

13 

15 

208 

Increase  in  rate  from  21  cents  to  221/^  cents  per  hour, 
September  28,  1913.  Increase  in  rate  from  22^/^  to  24 
cents  per  hour,  November  9,  1913. 

Inspector  5  years — work  10  hours — 7  days.  Wife  and  3 
children.  I  get  24  cents  straight  time  and  think  I  ought 
to  have  extra  for  overtime.  Inspect  eight  cars  a  day  with  2 
men.  We  have  enough  men,  but  some  days  are  rushed. 
In  bad  weather  wei  may  have  to  work  overtime  an  hour  or 
two  and  at  times  in  emergency  cases  day  and  night.  Used 
to  be  night  man  and  work  13  hours.  Now  I  work  day  and 
10  hours.  Was  changed  by  my  boss  because  my  wife  was 
sick.  Started  as  a  car  washer  at  15  cents.  Was  a  baker  by 
trade' — worked  at  it  8  years  and  got  23  cents — quit  it  be- 
cause of  health. 


209 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Alonzo   Isaac   Campton, 
Shifter  and  Reading  Register  Statements. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept.  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
31 

Total  Time  354    328    363    365    343    294 

341  hrs.  at  15  cents,  276  hrs.  at  15  cents,  350  hrs.  at  15 
cents,  352  hrs.  at  15  cents,  317  hours,  at  15  cents,  13  hrs. 
at  16  2-3  cents,  52  hrs.  at  16  2-3  cents,  13  hrs.  at  17  6-7 
cents,  26  hrs.  at  17  6-7  cents. 
Wages  Actually  Paid : 

153  32  150  06  |54  82  |55  12  |53  39  |44  10 


12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

18 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

13 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

14 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

13 

12 

13 

13 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

13 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

13 

12 

12 

12 

12 

14 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

13 

12 

12 

14 

12 

12 

13 

12 

12 

13 

12 

12 

13 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

13 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

13 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

13 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

13 

12 

12 

12 

13 

13 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

11 

12 

13 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

210 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  James  Fisher,  Shop  De- 
partment as  Car  Inspector  at  21  cents  per  Hour. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  HrsMin     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min 


1 

10 

11 

11 

11 

10 

2 

11 

10 

10 

11 

10 

3 

10 

10 

11 

10 

4 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

6 

10 

23 

11 

10 

7 

10 

11 

11 

8 

10 

11 

11 

9 

10 

11 

10 

10 

10 

12 

10 

10 

10 

16 

10 

10 

11 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

12 

10 

10 

11 

10 

11 

13 

10 

10 

10 

10 

11 

14 

10 

11 

10 

10 

4 

15 

11 

10 

12 

11 

10 

16 

10 

10 

11 

10 

10 

17 

11 

10 

11 

10 

4 

18 

11 

11 

11 

10 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

10 

11 

10 

10 

20 

10 

10 

11 

10 

10 

21 

10 

10 

11 

5 

10 

10 

22 

10 

11 

10 

10 

11 

10 

23 

10 

11 

10 

10 

10 

10 

24 

23 

11 

16 

23 

10 

9 

25 

12 

12 

11 

10 

10 

26 

11 

10 

24 

10 

11 

10 

27 

10 

16 

11 

10 

10 

10 

28 

11 

10 

12 

10 

11 

29 

11 

10 

10 

10 

10 

30 

16 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

31 

12 

10 

16 

Total  Time  306 

344 

277 

245 

290 

181 

Rate 

21c 

21c 

21c 

21c 

21c 

23c 

Wasres  Actually  Paid. 

164  26  $72  24  |58  17  |51  45  |60  90  $41  63 
Increase  in  rate  from  21  cents  to  23  cents  per  hour.    Nov. 
9,  1913. 


211 

Age  36.  Live  with  and  support  motlier.  Been  with  com- 
pany 4  years.  I  put  away  the  trippers,  get  the  car  reports 
and  do  repair  work.  I  also  go  out  on  wreck  car  at  times. 
I  make  23  cents— $69.00  a  month  for  30  days  and  $71.00  a 
month  for  31  days.  Used  to  be  bridge  repairer,  but  came 
here  to  be  with  my  mother.  I  didn't  hunt  for  a  job.  A 
relative  told  me  of  this,  and  I  took  it  the  second  day  after 
I  got  here. 


212 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Michael  Keifer  Electrical 
Helper  at  19c  per  Hour. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min 


1 

16 

10 

2 

10 

10 

10 

3 

10 

10 

4 

15 

10 

10 

5 

15 

10 

6 

10 

10 

10 

7 

10 

10 

8 

15 

10 

10 

9 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

11 

15 

10 

10 

10 

12 

15 

10 

10 

13 

10 

10 

10 

10 

14 

15 

10 

10 

15 

15 

10 

10 

10 

16 

10 

10 

10 

17 

10 

10 

10 

18 

10 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

20 

10 

10 

10 

21 

10 

10 

22 

10 

10 

10 

23 

10 

10 

24 

10 

10 

10 

25 

15 

10 

10 

10 

26 

10 

10 

10 

27 

10 

5 

10 

28 

10 

15 

10 

29 

10 

10 

10 

10 

30 

10 

10 

10 

31 

10 

10 

Total  Time  10        245        245        275         180 

Wages  Actually  Paid 

I  1.90  |46  55  $46  55  $52  25  $34  20 


213 

Age  32 ;  electrician's  helper ;  sometimes  we  have  to  work 
outside  and  the  water  drips  down  my  neck.  I  always 
thought  we  were  entitled  to  more  pay. 

I  asked  Mr.  Mahoney  for  a  recommendation  once  when 
I  quit  and  he  said  just  to  refer  to  the  company,  we  don't 
give  any  letters.  At  that  time  I  was  quitting  as  a  con- 
ductor. I  had  been  a  lineman  before.  Three  days  after 
I  quit  the  company  gave  me  this  job.  I  tried  ten  places 
and  found  all  full.  I  was  contented  to  take  this  place.  I 
considered  it  satisfactory.    I  don't  like  to  work  outside. 


214 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  O.  Coons,  Pit  Man  at  25c 

per  Hour. 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept 

Oct     Nov. 

Date 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min  Hrs  Min 

1 

10 

15 

10 

10 

4  • 

2 

15 

10 

10 

15 

3 

15 

10 

11 

10 

4 

10 

10 

15 

10 

5 

15 

10 

15 

10 

6 

10 

10 

10 

7 

10 

15 

10 

10 

8 

10 

15 

10 

9 

10 

14  30 

4 

10 

10 

15 

15 

10 

11 

10 

15 

15 

10 

12 

10 

10 

15 

10 

13 

15 

6  30 

10 

11 

14 

10 

15 

15 

10 

15 

10 

15 

15 

10 

16 

16 

10 

10 

10 

17 

15 

8  30 

10 

10 

18 

10 

15 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

14 

10 

20 

15 

7 

10 

10 

21 

10 

15 

10 

22 

5 

15 

15 

10 

23 

10 

10 

10 

10 

24 

15 

15 

9 

10 

25 

10 

15 

10 

10 

26 

10 

10 

10 

10 

27 

13 

10 

11 

10 

28 

10 

15 

15 

9  30 

29 

10 

10 

10 

30 

15 

10 

10 

10 

31 

10 

2  30 

10 

Total  Time  329         371  30  321  30     75  20        214  30 

Wages  Actually  paid 

|82  25  |92  88  |80  38  $18  75  $  5  00  |53  63 

Pit  man ;  get  25c ;  worked  6  years ;  all  thought  we  should 
have  a  little  more  money;  not  worth  while  to  speak  of  it, 
because  we  all  got  raised  about  a  year  ago.  The  pit  man 
should  keep  his  pit  clean ;  if  it  fills  up,  it  is  his  fault. 


215 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Edw.  Traub,  pit  helper  at 

19c  per  Hour. 


Jun«     July    Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Date 

HrsMin  Hrs  Min  Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

14  30 

10 

10 

2 

10 

15 

10 

3 

10 

10 

4 

15 

12  30 

10 

5 

15 

10 

6 

10 

10 

15 

7 

10 

15 

8 

10 

10 

10 

10 

9 

10 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

10 

11 

15 

10 

10 

10 

12 

15 

10 

9  30 

10 

13 

10 

10 

10 

10 

14 

15 

10 

15 

10 

15 

15 

10 

10 

10 

16 

10 

10 

10 

17 

10 

10 

10 

10 

18 

10 

10 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

10 

20 

10 

10 

10 

21 

15 

10 

10 

22 

15 

10 

10 

10 

23 

10 

10 

10 

10 

24 

10 

10 

10 

25 

10 

10 

10 

26 

10 

10 

7 

10 

27 

10 

10 

10 

28 

10 

15 

29 

10 

10 

10 

10 

30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

31 

10 

10 

Total  Time  314  30  281  30  286  30  260 

Wages  Actually  Paid 

$59  76  |51  58  |54  44  |49  40 


216 

Carried  on  pay  roll  as  Edw.  Traub;  pit  helper;  support 
two  sisters;  not  married;  I  never  had  a  grievance  until 
the  present  time ;  I  have  only  worked  since  August.  Those 
were  the  best  wages  I  could  get.  I  had  been  in  storeroom 
of  P.  &  E.  at  15c.  I've  been  working  in  Indianapolis  15 — 18 
years  and  have  never  made  any  more  than  19c.  We  get 
time  and  a  half  for  overtime.  I  looked  for  other  jobs  but 
could  find  no  other  that  suited  me. 


217 


Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Edw  D.  Spillman  as  Pit  Man 
at  23c  per  Hour. 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Date 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

10 

15 

15 

10 

10 

2 

15 

10 

10 

15 

10 

3 

15 

15 

10 

10 

10 

4 

10 

15 

12 

30 

10 

5 

15 

10 

15 

10 

6 

10 

10 

10 

10 

14  30 

7 

10 

15 

10 

15 

8 

15 

10 

10 

10 

9 

16 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

15 

15 

3 

30 

10 

10 

11 

10 

10 

15 

10 

10 

5 

12 

5 

10 

15 

10 

10 

10 

13 

15 

10 

10 

10 

7  30 

14 

10 

15 

15 

10 

15 

8  30 

15 

10 

15 

15 

10 

10 

10 

le 

15 

10 

10 

11 

30 

10 

17 

15 

4 

10 

10 

10 

10 

18 

10 

15 

10 

10 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

20 

15 

10 

10 

10 

10 

3  30 

21 

10 

15 

15 

9  30 

10 

22 

10 

15 

10 

9  30 

10 

23 

10 

10 

10 

10 

11 

10 

24 

15 

15 

10 

10 

11 

25 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

26 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

27 

10 

10 

9  30 

10 

28 

10 

15 

15 

9 

30 

15 

10 

29 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

30 

15 

10 

10 

10 

9  30 

10 

31 

10  30 

10 

10 

Total  Time  381 

319  30 

340 

281 

30 

309 

185  30 

Wages  Actually  Paid 

13  173  48  |78  20  |64  74  |71  07  |42  66 


218 

Carried  on  pay  roll  as  E.  D.  Spillman ;  Worked  for  com- 
pany three  years.  I've  asked  several  times  for  more  money 
and  foreman  said  he  would  see  what  he  could  do.  In  winter 
time  there  is  water  in  the  pit.  They  could  put  drain  pipes  in 
the  pit.  It  is  common  aborers'  work  in  the  pit.  I  started 
as  helper  at  17i/^c ;  became  pit  man  at  21c,  now  23c.  Used 
to  be  a  conductor  at  20c;  went  into  shop  on  account  of 
sickness  of  wife  so  could  be  home  at  night.  The  pit  man 
generally  dips  the  pit  out.  I  am  making  the  highest  wage 
I  ever  made. 


219 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  B.  J.  Brown,  Shop  Depart- 
ment as  Pit  Man. 


Jun« 

July    Aug. 

Sept 

Oct 

Nov. 

Date          Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min  Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

10 

10 

2  30 

2 

15 

10 

3 

10 

10 

4 

7  30 

15 

10 

5 

10 

6 

10 

10 

15 

7 

10 

15 

8 

10 

10 

10 

9  30 

9 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

11 

10 

10 

10 

10 

12 

10 

10 

10 

13 

10 

10 

10 

14 

15 

10 

15 

10 

15 

10 

10 

16 

10 

11  30 

10 

17 

10 

10 

10 

18 

10 

10 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

10 

20 

10 

10 

10 

10 

21 

15 

10 

10 

10 

22 

15 

10 

10 

10 

23 

10 

10 

10 

10 

24 

10 

10 

10 

10 

25 

10 

10 

10 

10 

26 

10 

10 

11 

10 

27 

10 

10 

10 

10 

28 

11 

30 

10 

15 

10 

29 

10 

9  30 

10 

10 

30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

31 

13 

30 

10 

Total  Time 

242 

30 

296 

311 

222 

171/2     171/2  40@17y2  @19c 
Changed  from  Roustabout  to  Pit  Helper   271@19c 
Wages  Actually  Paid 

|42  49  151  20  158  49  |42  19 


220 

Wife  and  five  children;  I  get  19c  for  10  hours.  I  work 
every  other  Sunday,  I  worged  in  the  shop,  taking  out  arma- 
tures and  wheels.  Most  pits  are  in  fair  shape.  I've  just 
worked  for  the  company  since  July.  I  haven't  worked  long 
in  the  pits.  I  was  a  roustabout  before.  Before  I  went  with 
the  company  I  worked  at  the  Sanitary  Can  company  and 
got  20c. 
Mrs.  Elenor  Brown: 

My  husband  is  B.  J.  Brown,  a  pit  helper.  I  have  five 
children;  ages  3  to  16  years.  My  husband  makes  19c  an 
hour.  We  live  in  a  four  room  double.  Pay  $7.50  a  month 
rent.  I  pay  out  the  money.  I  get  the  children's  clothes  at 
the  Salvation  Army.  I  buy  for  cash.  I  have  to  make  our 
grocery  bill  come  within  one  dollar  a  day.  I  am  32,  my 
husband  is  37.  We  have  not  saved.  Our  furniture  was 
carried  away  in  the  flood  I  get  butter  from  the  country. 
I  go  to  the  cut  rate  meat  market.  Get  salt  strips  of  pork 
for  7c  and  boiling  beef  for  lie.  I  pay  20c  for  coffee.  Boiling 
meat  at  the  grocery  would  cost  18c  to  20c.  My  husband 
has  one  Sunday  off  each  month.  He  takes  all  his  meals  at 
home. 


221 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Thomas  O'Connor,  Shop  De- 
partment, as  Pit  Man,  at  19c  Per  Hour. 


Date                        HrsMin     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      I 

Irs  Min     HrsMin    HrsMin 

1 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

10 

14 

10 

15 

10 

16 

10 

17 

10 

18 

10 

19 

10 

20 

10 

21 

10 

22 

10 

23 

10 

24 

11 

25 

.     10 

26 

10 

27 

10 

28 

10 

29 

10 

30 

10 

31 

10 

Total  Time 

181  00 

Wages  Actually  Paid 

|34  39 

Was  pit  man  four  years  and  seven  months  until  the  day 
before  the  flood.  Began  again  November  15.  I  first  started 
at  I7I/2C  and  worked  up  to  24c.  Eesigned;  went  back  at 
19c ;  I  began  again  after  the  strike ;  I  quit  because  I  thought 
I  would  be  an  automobile  man.  I  joined  the  union  the  day 
before  I  went  to  work  but  I  had  the  job  first. 


222 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Edw.  Winters,  Shop  Depart- 
ment Pit  Man  at  25  per  Hour. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min 


1 

15 

15 

9 

10 

2  30 

2 

15 

10 

10 

15 

10 

3 

15 

15 

10 

10 

4 

10 

9 

15 

15 

10 

5 

14  30 

9 

15 

10 

9 

6 

10 

10 

10 

15 

7 

9 

15 

10 

9 

12  30 

8 

9 

15 

10 

9 

9 

11  30 

9 

15 

10 

10 

10 

10 

9 

10 

15 

15 

9 

10 

9 

11 

10 

15 

15 

9 

10 

10 

12 

10 

10 

15 

10 

10 

13 

15 

9 

10 

10 

8 

10 

14 

10 

15 

14 

15 

10 

15 

14 

15 

10 

10 

10 

16 

10 

10 

10 

9 

17 

10 

10 

10 

10 

18 

10 

15 

10 

10 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

10 

9 

10 

20 

15 

10 

10 

10 

21 

10 

15 

15 

9 

10 

22 

9 

15 

10 

10 

10 

23 

10 

10 

10 

24 

15 

8  30 

10 

10 

10 

25 

5 

10 

9 

10 

10 

26 

10 

10 

10 

10 

27 

10 

10 

10 

10 

9 

28 

10 

14 

15 

15 

10 

29 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

30 

14 

10 

10 

10 

10 

31 

10 

8 

Total  Time  285  30  295  00  291  30  264  00  280  00  210  00 
Wages  Actually  Paid 

$71  38  |73  75  |72  88  $65  50  $70  13  $52  5j 


223 

Pit  man ;  work  10  hours ;  get  25c.  Wife  and  two  cMldren. 
I  want  better  wages ;  I've  asked  for  more  money ;  shop  fore- 
man said  he  would  see  about  it ;  he  talked  courteously.  Be- 
gan 13  years  ago  at  15c ;  11  years  ago  became  pit  man  at 
171/^c;  10  years  ago  raised  to  20c;  6  years  ago  roised  to 
221/^c;  Jan.  1, 1913,  raised  to  25c. 


224 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  M.  Underwood,  Shop  De- 
partment, Pit  Man,  at  17^c  Per  Hour. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min 


1 

9  30 

10 

10 

2  30 

2 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

3 

10 

14  30 

10 

10 

4 

10 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

10 

6 

10 

10 

10 

10 

7 

10 

10 

8  30 

10 

8 

15 

10 

10 

10 

10 

9 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

9  30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

11 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

12 

10 

7 

10 

10 

10 

13 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

14 

10 

10 

10 

7 

10 

15 

9  30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

16 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

17 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

18 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

20 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

21 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

22 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

23 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

24 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

25 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

26 

7 

10 

10 

10 

10 

27 

10 

10 

10 

10 

28 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

29 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

9  30 

31 

10 

Total  Time  247 

265  30 

258  30 

240 

256  30 

192 

Wages  Actually  Paid 

|43  23  |46  46  |45  24  $42  00  $44  89  $33  60 


225 

The  Name  "M.  Underwood,"  only  appears  on  the  pay 
rolls  as  controller  man  and  wireman  .  Ollie  Underwood 
does  not  appear  on  pay  roll  between  the  1st  day  of  June 
and  November  30th. 

Age  31 ;  wife  and  one  child.  For  overtime  at  night  I  get 
time  and  one-half,  but  not  on  Sunday  or  holidays.  Rent 
19.00 ;  grocery  bill  |7  to  |7.50  a  week.  "^Brother  boards  with 
me  and  pays  |3.50  a  week.  At  this  time  jobs  are  scarce.  I 
hope  to  make  a  better  job  of  it.  I've  had  a  common  school 
education.    Thousands  of  men  are  seeking  work. 


226 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Earl  R.  Elder 
As  Welder,  at  27i/^c  Per  Hour. 

JunB  July  Aug.  Sept.  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min 


1 

10 

15 

10 

10 

2  30 

2 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

3 

10 

10 

4  30 

10 

10 

4 

10 

10 

8 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

10 

6 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

7 

10 

10 

10 

10 

8 

10  30 

10 

10 

10 

9 

15 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

15 

10 

10 

10 

10 

11 

10 

10 

15 

10 

10 

10 

12 

10 

10 

15 

10 

10 

13 

15 

10 

10 

10 

10 

14 

10 

10 

10 

15 

10 

15 

10 

15 

10 

10 

10 

16 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

17 

7  30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

18 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

20 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

21 

10 

10 

15 

10 

10 

22 

10 

15 

10 

10 

10 

23 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

24 

15 

15 

10 

10 

10 

25 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

26 

10 

10 

10 

9 

10 

27 

10 

10 

10 

10 

28 

10 

10 

15 

10 

10 

29 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

30 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

31 

5 

10 

Total  Time  267  30  265  30  294  30  252        275         170 
Wages  Actually  Paid: 

173  43  172  88  |80  85  |69  30  $75  62  |47  75 


227 

Carried  on  payroll  as  R.  Elder.  "I  get  27^c.  I  lost 
an  eye  at  the  Beveridge  Paper  House.  I've  had  to  work 
five  Sundays  in  two  years.  We  used  to  have  time  and  a 
half  for  overtime,  but  they  took  that  away.  I  have  made 
$17  50  to  |20  a  week  as  an  engineer  but  didn't  like  it.  Be- 
gan with  this  company  as  roustabout  at  17^c.  If  a  man 
looks  after  the  device  there  is  no  danger. 


228 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Chas.  Loener, 
Cabinet  Maker,  at  27^c  Per  Hour. 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Date 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

10 

10 

10 

2 

10 

10 

10 

10 

3 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

4 

10 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

10 

6 

10 

10 

10 

10 

7 

10 

10 

11 

10 

8 

10 

10 

1  30 

10 

9 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

9 

10 

11 

10 

10 

10 

10 

5 

15 

12 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

13 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

14 

10 

10 

10 

3  30 

15 

15 

10 

10 

10 

10 

16 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

17 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

18 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

20 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

21 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

22 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

23 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

24 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

25 

10 

10 

15 

10 

10 

10 

26 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

27 

10 

10 

10 

10 

28 

10 

10 

10 

10 

29 

10 

10 

10 

10 

30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

31 

10 

Total  Time  250        215        246        241  30  247  30  200 
Wages  Actually  Paid: 

75  159  12  |67  65  |66  28  |67  93  $55  00 


229 

Age  55 ;  with  company  14  years ;  wife  and  two  children ; 
have  had  five  children.  "I  bought  a  house;  have  paid  off 
on  it  except  $200  to  |300.  I  pay  $15  a  month  on  it,  but 
now  I'm  behind  in  my  payments.  We  ought  to  have  an 
increase.  I  couldn't  get  along  except  that  my  wife  takes 
in  washing.  (Compare  this  statement  with  his  wage  ac- 
count above  to  see  how  steadily  he  works. ) 


230 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Rudolpli  Buhler, 
Shop  Department,  as  Carpenter,  at  25c  Per  Hour. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  HrsMin     HrsMin    HrsMin      HrsMin     Hrs  Min    HrsMin 


1 

10 

10 

10 

10 

2 

10 

10 

10 

10 

3 

10 

10 

10 

4 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

6 

10 

10 

10 

7 

10 

10 

10 

8 

10 

10 

10 

10 

9 

10 

10 

10 

10 

9 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

11 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

12 

10 

10 

10 

9  30 

13 

10 

10 

10 

10 

14 

10 

10 

10 

10 

15 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

16 

10 

10 

10 

10 

17 

10 

10 

10 

10 

18 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

10 

10 

20 

10 

10 

10 

10 

21 

10 

10 

10 

10 

22 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

23 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

24 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

25 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

26 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

27 

10 

10 

10 

10 

28 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

29 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

31 

10 

10 

Total  Time.    70        255        260        250        270        188  30 
Wages  Actu- 
ally Paid.|17  50  |63  75  $65  00  |62  50  |67  50  |47  13 


231 

Age,  64.  Carpenter.  Here  four  years.  I  don't  work 
overtime  or  on  Sundays  or  holidays.  My  wages  don't  keep 
me.  I  have  |160  a  year  beside  my  wages.  I  worked  for 
the  company  before  as  a  carpenter  at  22y2C.  Then  to  Big 
4 ;  began  at  20c ;  there  fifteen  years  and  worked  up  to  25c. 
Left  Big  4  to  come  to  street  railway  and  have  been  getting 
25c  all  the  time.  I  would  rather  work  straight  wages  than 
piece  work.  House  carpenters  are  out  of  work  two  or 
three  months  each  year.  I  didn't  like  the  way  the  house 
carpenter  foremen  work  in  this  city. 


232 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  M.  McHugh,  Shop  Depart- 
ment as  Car  Inspector  at  20  cents  per  Hour. 


Jur 

re           July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Date          Hrs  Min  Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1        10 

11 

11 

10 

2 

10 

10 

10 

3        10 

10 

11 

11 

10 

4        23 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

11 

10 

6        10 

11 

11 

10 

7        10 

11 

11 

10 

8        10 

11 

10 

10 

9        10 

11 

10 

10 

10        10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

11        10 

11 

10 

10 

10 

12        10 

10 

10 

10 

7 

13        10 

11 

15 

10 

10 

14        10 

11 

10 

15        10 

10 

10 

10 

16 

10 

10 

10 

17 

10 

11 

10 

5 

IS 

10 

11 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

10 

10 

20 

11 

10 

10 

21 

10 

11 

10 

10 

22 

11 

10 

10 

10 

23        10 

11 

10 

10 

11 

24        10 

11 

16 

10 

10 

25        12 

12 

11 

10 

11 

26        11 

10 

18 

10 

10 

27        11 

10 

10 

10 

28        10 

10 

10 

10 

29        23 

11 

10 

10 

10 

30        14 

10 

10 

10 

10  , 

31 

12 

15 

Total  Time  244 

327 

279 

31 

285 

194 

Rate  at    20c 

198(a)20c 
129@21c 

21c 

21c 

21c 

23c 

Wages  Actuallv  Paid. 

$48  80  166  69  |58  59 

16  51  $59  85  144  62 

233 

Increase  in  rate  from  20  cents  to  21  cents  per  hour,  July 
20th,  1913.  Increase  in  the  rate  from  21  cents  to  23  cents 
per  hour,  November  9, 1913. 

Inspector ;  with  company  3  years.  I  would  like  to  have 
pay  for  overtime.  Was  an  iron  moulder,  but  had  to  quit 
on  account  of  my  back.  Before  I  came  to  this  company  I 
earned  15  cents.  Began  here  at  16  cents  and  have  worked 
up  to  23  cents.    I  couldn't  do  any  better  elsewhere. 


234 


Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Wm.  S.  Eoss,  Shop  Depart- 
ment Air  Inspector  at  27^  e  per  Hour. 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept 

Oct 

Nov. 

Date 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

12 

10 

10 

10 

2  30 

2 

10 

10 

10 

10 

3 

10 

5 

10 

10 

4 

10 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

5 

6 

5 

10 

10 

10 

7 

10 

10 

5 

10 

8 

10 

10 

5 

10 

9 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

11 

10 

11  30 

11 

10 

10 

12 

11  30 

10 

10 

10 

5 

11 

13 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

10 

14 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

10 

15 

5 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

16 

11  30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

5 

17 

10 

10 

5 

10 

10 

5 

18 

11  30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

19 

10  30 

10 

10 

12  30 

5 

10 

20 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

10 

21 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

10 

22 

5 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

23 

10  30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

5 

24 

10 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

25 

12  30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

26 

10 

10 

10 

10 

5 

5 

27 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

28 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

29 

5  30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

31 

10 

5 

10 

Total  Ti 

ime  183  30 

292 

286 

268  30 

290 

163  30 

Wages  Actually  Paid. 

150  33  180  30  178  65  |73  70  |79  75  |44  82 


235 

Air  inspector ;  wife ;  no  children.  I  think  I  ought  toi  have 
a  raise.  Worked  for  company  once  before  as  a  car  washer 
at  I7V2C.  Then  in  power  house  at  17%c.  Then  helper  to 
air  inspector  at  20c.  "These  are  the  highest  wages  I  ever 
made." 


236 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  J.  Forsee, 
Shop  Department,  as  Painter,  at  25c  per  Hour. 

Jun«  July  Aug.  Sept.  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min 


1 

10 

10 

10 

10 

2 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

3 

10 

10 

10 

10 

4 

10 

10 

10 

10 

5 

10 

10 

10 

10 

6 

10 

10 

10 

10 

7 

10 

10 

10 

10 

8 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

9 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

11 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

12 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

13 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

14 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

15 

9  30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

16 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

17 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

18 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

19 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

20 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

21 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

22 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

23 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

24 

4 

10 

10 

10 

10 

25 

5 

10 

10 

10 

10 

26 

10 

10 

10 

10 

27 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

28 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

29 

10 

10 

10 

10 

30 

10 

10 

10 

10 

10 

31 

10 

10 

Total  Time. 

239 

259  30  260 

250 

270 

170 

Wages  Actu- 
ally Paid.|59  75  |64  88  $65  00  |62  50  $67  50  f42  50 


237 

Age,  47.  Married;  six  children.  With  company  three 
years.  Get  25c.  Ten  hours.  A  petition  was  circulated  in 
the  shop — like  the  spokes  of  a  wheel.  I  signed  it.  It  was 
asking  for  more  money.  It  looked  like  boys'  play  to  me. 
It  was  never  presented  to  the  company,  I  never  talked  to 
Mr.  Clark.  Painted  piecework  at  Kingan's  and  made 
more  than  I  do  now.  It  didn't  last  long.  Worked  at  Jef- 
fersonville  Car  Works  at  |1.80  a  day. 


238 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Oscar  Skinner, 
Motorman,  Track  Department. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept.  Oct  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Mln 


1 

11 

11 

11 

11 

6 

2 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

3 

11 

11 

11 

11 

4 

11 

11 

11 

11 

5 

11 

11 

15 

11 

6 

11 

11 

11 

11 

7 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

8 

10 

11 

14 

11 

11 

9 

11 

12 

11 

11 

11 

10 

15 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

12 

15 

11 

11 

11 

13 

11 

10 

11 

11 

12 

11 

14 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

15 

10 

11 

11 

11 

11 

10 

16 

11 

11 

11 

11 

10 

17 

12 

11 

11 

8 

10 

18 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

19 

12 

11 

11 

12 

11 

20 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

21 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

22 

11 

11 

11 

11 

10 

23 

11 

5 

11 

11 

11 

24 

11 

11 

11 

11 

25 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

26 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

27 

11 

11 

11 

11 

28 

11 

11 

11 

11 

4 

29 

10 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

30 

11 

11 

11 

11 

11 

8 

31 

11 

11 

11 

Total  Time. 

315 

280 

304 

298 

294 

150 

Rate 

at  21c 

at  21c 

at  21c 

at  21c 

at  21c 

at  21c 

8  at  I71/2C 

Total  Wages 
Paid |66  15  |58  80  |63  84  |62  08  |61  74  f32  90 


239 

Work-car  motorman,  two  years;  21c.  Work  10  to  11 
hours  a  day.  First  worked  for  company  on  track,  17i^c; 
then  trolley  boy,  ITi/^c;  then  motorman  in  1912  at  19c. 
Raise  and  advance  in  June  brought  him  to  21c.  Used  to 
be  coal  miner ;  wife  objected.  Then  on  railroad,  but  didn't 
like  to  work  with  Dagoes.  Then  shoveled  coal  at  |60  a 
month.    Didn't  like  to  shovel  coal  in  hot  weather. 


240 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  Charles  Engle, 
Motorman,  Track  Department. 


June 

July 

Aug. 

Sept. 

Oct. 

Nov. 

Date 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

Hrs  Min 

1 

11 

12 

11 

10 

2 

11 

12 

11 

11 

13 

3 

11 

12 

11 

13 

4 

11 

13 

12 

14 

5 

11 

11 

12 

12 

6 

11 

11 

12 

7 

11 

11 

17 

11 

12 

8 

11 

12 

11 

12 

9 

12 

12 

12 

11 

12 

10 

16 

12 

16 

12 

9 

11 

12 

12 

12 

11 

12 

9 

12 

17 

12 

11 

11 

11 

9 

13 

16 

12 

11 

10 

12 

9 

14 

12 

11 

12 

8 

12 

9 

15 

9 

11 

12 

12 

12 

10 

16 

11 

11 

12 

12 

11 

8 

17 

15 

22 

12 

11 

9 

18 

11 

12 

12 

12 

12 

9 

19 

11 

11 

12 

12 

9 

20 

11 

12 

12 

11 

9 

21 

10 

11 

12 

12 

9 

22 

11 

11 

12 

13 

7 

9 

23 

11 

12 

12 

11 

11 

24 

11 

5 

12 

12 

10 

25 

10 

12 

12 

12 

10 

26 

10 

12 

12 

12 

9 

12 

27 

11 

11 

12 

13 

12 

28 

11 

11 

12 

12 

10 

29 

10 

12 

11 

12 

12 

10 

30 

12 

11 

11 

11 

8 

31 

11 

11 

326         303         289         314         336         167 

Rate at  23c     at  23c     at  23c     at  24c     at  24c   at  24c 

11  at  24c  20atl7y2C 


174  98  169  69  |69  11  |75  36  |80  64  |43  58 


241 

Motorman,  work  train.  I  earn  |16.84  for  six  days, 
eleven  hours  each.  I  work  extra  in  the  rush  season.  I 
joined  on  November  1,  on  Saturday.  I  soaked  my  watch 
to  join.  Last  work  before  was  driving  coal  wagon  at  |12 
a  week.  I  never  made  as  much  at  any  other  job.  I  never 
worked  five  years  at  any  other  job. 


242 

Hours  of  Time  and  Wages  of  William  L.  Lawler, 
Power  Station  Department,  as  Engineer,  at  25c  per  Hour. 

June  July  Aug.  Sept.  Oct.  Nov. 

Date  Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min      Hrs  Min     Hrs  Min    Hrs  Min 


1 

14 

14 

14 

7 

12 

24 

2 

14 

14 

14 

12 

12 

24 

3 

14 

14 

14 

12 

12 

24 

4 

14 

14 

7 

12 

12 

12 

5 

14 

14 

12 

12 

12 

12 

6 

14 

14 

12 

12 

12 

12 

7 

14 

7 

12 

12 

12 

12 

8 

14 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

9 

7 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

10 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

19 

11 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

14 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

12 

14 

13 

12 

12 

12 

12 

19 

14 

14 

12 

12 

12 

12 

14 

14 

15 

12 

12 

19 

14 

14 

16 

12 

12 

14 

14 

14 

17 

12 

12 

12 

14 

14 

14 

18 

12 

12 

19 

14 

14 

14 

19 

12 

12 

14 

14 

14 

20 

12 

12 

14 

14 

14 

21 

12 

19 

14 

14 

14 

14 

22 

12 

14 

14 

14 

14 

14 

23 

19 

14 

14 

14 

14 

24 

14 

14 

14 

14 

14 

25 

14 

14 

14 

14 

14 

26 

14 

14 

14 

14 

14 

27 

14 

14 

14 

14 

7 

28 

14 

14 

14 

14 

12 

29 

14 

14 

14 

7 

12 

30 

14 

14 

14 

12 

12 

31 

14 

14 

12 

Total  Time.  392         406        382        383        400         303 

Wages  Actu- 
ally Paid.  198  00  $101  50  |95  50  |95  75  $100  00  $75  75 


243 

Been  with  company  thirteen  years.  Been  engineer 
eleven  years.  My  wages  are  |22.75  a  week.  At  Merchants' 
one  man  gets  |22.50  a  week ;  others  $18.  At  Indianapolis 
L.  and  H.  Company  engineers  get  $80  to  $90  a  month.  My 
physical  labor  is  limited  to  repair  work. 


244 

GETTING  THE  GANG  TOGETHER. 

From  the  examination  of  Mr.  Thoepe  : 
Cross-examination — Questions  by  Me.  Latta: 

143.  Q.  By  attending  these  Vai'ious  meetings,  what 
were  you  aiming  to  do? 

A.  I  was  aiming  to  conduct  my  affairs  here  in  organiz- 
ing the  street  car  men  in  the  city  of  Indianapolis,  which 
I  believe  I  accomplished. 

144.  Q.  What  did  all  these  various  meetings  have  to  do 
with  this  organizing  of  the  men? 

A.  I  was  in  there  talking  to  these  men  and  working 
along  that  line,  as  I  understood  you  people  had  women 
going  in  my  room  and  searching  my  room  to  find  out  who 
were  the  members  of  my  organization  and  find  out  how 
they  were  getting  men,  and  in  place  of  my  riding  out  on 
the  cars  and  organizing  these  men,  we  had  about  eighteen 
thousand  other  men  doing  the  work,  and  your  people  were 
standing  around  on  the  corner  and  you  were  paying  them 
four  dollars  a  day  for  learning  nothing. 

Mr.  Claek  :   That  is  not  an  answer  to  the  ques- 
tion. 

145.  Q.  My  question  is,  what  was  your  object  in  going 
to  and  addressing  all  these  meetings  with  the  allied 
trades? 

A.  Simply  to  ask  these  men  to  assist  in  organizing  the 
street  car  men  of  this  town. 

146.  Q.  Now,  on  the  morning  after  the  strike  was 
called,  there  were  a  large  number  of  men  congregated  at 
the  Labor  Temple,  were  there  not — on  Saturday  morning? 

A.  I  suppose  there  was  quite  a  bunch  there,  and  there 
was  quite  a  bunch  of  the  street  car  men  there  that  morn- 
ing. 


245 

147.  Q.  There  was  a  large  number  of  men — four  or  five 
thousand  men  on  the  street  that  morning,  was  there  not? 

A.  We  had  a  meeting  of  our  men  that  morning.  I  don't 
know  how  many  were  out  on  the  street.  I  was  up  in  the 
hall  conducting  the  meeting. 

148.  Q.  The  men  that  you  got  about  you  at  the  time 
of  the  strike,  and  who  broke  up  the  cars  and  committed 
the  violence,  were  men  that  you  had  drawn  about  you  by 
attending  these  various  meetings  of  the  labor  organiza- 
tions, were  they  not? 

Mr.  Clawson:  We  object  to  that  question,  for 
it  is  assuming  that  the  men — Mr.  Latta  assumes 
that  it  was  the  men  who  Mr.  Thorpe  got  about  him 
who  broke  up  the  cars. 

Chairman  Duncan:  Yes,  I  think  the  question 
contains  an  assumption. 

149.  Q.  There  was  a  crowd  of  four  or  five  thousand 
men  on  the  street  the  morning  after  that  strike  was  called, 
wasn't  there? 

A.  I  couldn't  say,  as  I  told  you  once  before.  I  was  up 
in  the  hall  conducting  a  meeting.  I  wasn't  standing  on 
the  street  watching  the  crowd. 

150.  Q.  I  suppose  you  went  out  of  the  hall  some  time 
that  day,  didn't  you? 

A.  I  didn't  go  out  until  I  went  over  to  the  hotel. 

151.  Q.  What  time  was  that? 
A.  I  couldn't  tell  you. 

152.  Q.  When  you  went  out,  did  you  see  a  large  num- 
ber of  men? 

A.  There  was  some  standing  around  the  street,  sure. 

153.  Q.  And  you  know,  of  your  own  knowledge,  that 
during  that  morning  there  was  a  large  amount  of  property 
destroyed,  of  the  Street  Railway  Company? 

A.  I  couldn't  say,  because  I  didn't  see  a  single  car  win- 


246 

dow  mashed.  I  saw  some  cars  with  the  windows  broke, 
but  I  didn't  see  it  done,  and  I  want  to  state  there,  for  the 
benefit  of  the  Commission,  that  we  advised  all  the  men  of 
organized  labor  to  commit  no  violence. 

154.  Q.  Oh,  yes,  I  understand  that. 

A.  And  I  know  that  you  are  trying  to  make  somebody 
think  that  we  agitated  this,  but  we  didn't. 

Mr.   Clawson:    Just  auswer  the  question  and 
then  stop. 

155.  Q.  The  men  who  were  on  the  street  on  Saturday, 
at  the  time  that  those  cars  were  bursted  up,  came  from 
the  various  organizations  that  you  had  been  addressing 
since  early  in  September? 

A.  I  couldn't  say  that,  for  I  don't  believe  they  did. 

156.  Q.  Where  did  they  come  from? 

A.  God  knows;  I  don't.  They  told  me  there  was  some 
boys,  twelve  or  thirteen  years  old,  done  that,  and  not  only 
that,  but  some  of  the  sluggers  you  had  yourselves  em- 
ployed broke  some  of  those  windows,  and  some  of  the 
strikebreakers  you  brought  in  here  broke  the  windows  of 
the  cars. 

157.  Q.  You  want  the  Commission  to  believe  that? 

A.  Well,  I  do.  And  you  people  know  very  well,  your- 
selves, that  it  was  done. 

158.  Q.  Now,  I  want  to  ask  you,  is  that  what  is  meant 
by  your  statements  contained  in  the  report  of  your  General 
Executive  Board,  that  your  organization  is  strong  enough 
that  it  can  make  it  so  expensive  for  a  street  railway  com- 
pany that  they  have  to  comply  with  your  demands? 

A.  Well,  you  can  interpret  that  as  you  please.  We  feel 
that  our  organization  is  strong  enough  to  protect  our 
members. 


247 

CALLING  THE  STEIKE. 
From  the  eccamination  of  Mr.  Thorpe  : 
Cross-examination — Questions  hy  Mr.  Latta: 

174.  Q.  Who  appointed  the  committee  that  went  to  see 
Mr.  Todd  one  day  before  the  strike  was  called? 

A.  They  were  some  of  the  employes  themselves  apt- 
pointed  a  committee. 

175.  Q.  Who  did  it? 

A.  I  can't  recall  the  names  at  that  time — they  were 
strangers  to  me,  at  that  time,  practically. 

176.  Q.  Have  you,  in  your  possession,  or  is  there  any- 
where, a  record  of  that  meeting? 

A.  I  don't  know  whether  there  is  a  record  of  the  meet- 
ing or  not.  They  simply  met  there  in  the  Labor  Temple, 
and  the  committee  was  appointed  to  present  the  demands 
to  Mr.  Todd. 

177.  Q.  When  was  that  meeting  held? 

A.  On  the  same  day  the  grievance  was  presented  to  Mr. 
Todd. 

178.  Q.  Was  that  the  first  meeting  that  had  been  held? 
A.  No,  sir.     There  was  some  meetings  held  before  that. 

179.  Q.  Were  there  records  of  those  meetings? 

A.  No,  sir.  We  didn't  think  it  was  necessary  to  keep 
them  at  that  time. 

180.  Q.  How  many  were  present  when  that  committee 
was  chosen? 

A.  I  couldn't  tell  you,  because  I  haven't  any  idea. 

181.  Q.  Were  there  five? 

A.  No,  sir ;  I  didn't  count  them. 

182.  Q.  Would  you  say  there  were  as  many  as  five? 

A.  I  couldn't  say  whether  there  was  five,  or  two  or  three. 


248 

or  a  dozen,  but  I  know  these  men  were  picked  out  as  a 
committee  to  go  to  Mr.  Todd. 

183.  Q.  You  are  not  willing  to  say  there  were  as  many 
as  five  present? 

A.  I  can't  say  whether  there  was  five  or  a  dozen,  be- 
cause I  didn't  count  them.  I  know  there  was  enough 
there  to  present  the  demands  to  Mr.  Todd,  and  they  was 
appointed. 

184.  Q.  Was  that  the  only  time  that  demands  had 
ever  been  presented  to  Mr.  Todd? 

A.  I  believe  it  was — in  the  form  that  they  were  pre- 
sented in. 

185.  Q.  Is  that  the  only  time  that  any  written  de- 
mands were  ever  presented  to  Mr.  Todd? 

A.  No,  I  think  there  was  written  demands  presented 
to  Mr.  Todd  previous  to  that,  by  the  interurban  men. 

186.  Q.  I  am  not  talking  about  that;  I  am  talking 
about  the  city  men;  is  that  the  only  time  that  the  city 
men  ever  attempted  to  present  any  demands  to  Mr.  Todd? 

A.  No,  sir.  There  was  a  demand  previous  to  that,  I 
be!  ^" eve,  sent  to  Mr.  Todd. 

187.  Q.  Who  by? 

A.  If  I  remember  right,  they  were  sent  by  a  mes- 
senger boy. 

188.  Q.  Who  made  it? 

A.     The  committee  of  the  men  themselves. 

189.  Q.  Who  signed  it? 

A.  I  don't  recall.  I  think  Mr.  Todd  has  it  on  his  paper, 
who  signed  the  report. 

190.  Q.     Do  you  remember  anything  about  it? 
A.     Yes,  sir,  I  remember  the  thing  was  sent  up. 

191.  Q.  Who  got  it  up? 
A.     The  men. 


249 

192.  Who  wrote  it? 

A.  We  assisted  them  in  writing  it,  which  is  our  duty, 
as  an  organizer  of  this  organization. 

193.  Q.  Did  you  assist  them — if  so,  say  so. 
A.     I  assisted  them,  yes,  sir. 

194.  Q.  Now  what  was  in  it? 

A.  I  can't  just  tell  I  have  a  copy  over  at  the  house — 
requesting  shorter  hours  and  better  wages,  and  that  the 
company  recognize  them  as  a  body  of  men  and  asking 
for  an  arbitration  clause. 

195.  Q.  Do  you  know  when  that  was  signed? 
A.     I  don't  recall  the  date,  no. 

196.  Q.  Now  when  you  sent  this  demand  on  the  30th 
day  of  October,  had  there  been  a  vote  of  any  body  of 
men  on  the  subject  of  a  strike,  when  this  demand  was 
sent  on  the  30th  day  of  October? 

A.     Do  you  mean  a  strike  vote? 

197.  Q.  Yes. 

A.  No,  I  will  say  there  wasn't  no  strike  vote  taken  at 
that  time,  because  we  expected  to  have  an  adjustment  be- 
fore the  strike. 

198.  Q.  There  was  no  strike  vote  taken? 
A.     No,  sir. 

199.  Q.  That  demand  was  signed  by  Robert  A.  Mc- 
Daniel  and  Claude  Kinder? 

A.     Yes. 

200.  Q.  And  I  will  ask  you  whether  they  were  in- 
structed to  demand  an  answer  wtihin  twenty-four  hours? 

A  They  was  asked  to  get  an  answer  from  Mr  Todd, 
I  believe,  by  twelve  o'clock  the  next  day. 

Me.  Latta:    I  want  to  put  in,  as  a  part  of  this 
cross  examination,  that  original  demand. 

The  Witness:    Will  you  allow  me  to  see  that? 


250 

221.     Q.  Do  you  recognize  that  as  the  paper? 
A.     Yes,  sir. 

Note — There  is  an  error  in  the  numbering  of  questions 
in  the  record ;  above  question  should  have  been  number  201. 

Mr.  Latta:  I  will  now  read  this  original  de- 
mand, just  identified  by  the  witness.  Exhibit  No. 
11. 

The  said  paper  so  offered  was  admitted  and  read  in 
evidence,  was  marked  "Exhibit  No.  11"  and  the  same  is 
in  the  words  and  figures  following,  to- wit: 


EXHIBIT  NO.  11. 
Demands  of  the  City  Men. 

1.  Seventy-five  per  cent,  of  the  runs  on  the  schedule 
to  be  known  as  Earlies  and  Lates,  and  to  be  completed 
within  11  consecutive  hours. 

2.  All  swing  runs  to  he  completed  within  14  consecu- 
tive hours. 

3.  All  runs  Avorking  less  than  9  hours  to  pay  9  hours' 
time. 

4.  Time  and  one-half  for  all  overtime  worked  over  the 
daily  schedules. 

5.  A  flat  rate  of  wages  of  32  cents  per  hour. 

6.  The  right  to  have  your  grievance  presented  to  the 
company  by  a  committee  of  your  organization. 

7.  An  arbitration  clause  to  arbitrate  all  questions  that 
cannot  be  satisfactorily  adjusted  between  both  parties. 


251 


Demands  of  Interurban  Men. 

1.  Scale  35  cents  per  hour. 

2.  When  men  were  discharged  since  the  organization 
was  started,  that  they  be  reinstated. 

3.  That  no  regular  run  shall  pay  less  than  9  hours. 

4.  All  extra  time  over  regular  runs  shall  pay  time  and 
one-half. 

5.  That  all  freight  trains  shall  consist  of  at  least  one 
motorman,  one  conductor  and  one  hrakeman. 

6.  That  all  trains  consising  of  more  than  one  car 
shall  have  at  least  one  conductor,  one  motorman  and  one 
brakeman. 

7.  That  all  passenger  trains  carrying  milk,  baggage 
or  express  or  other  merchandise,  shall  consist  of  at  least 
one  conductor,  one  motorman  and  one  baggageman. 

Committee:     ROBERT  A.  McDANIEL, 

CLAUD   KINDER. 
Div.    645,    Amalgamated    A^sn.    Street    & 
Electric  Railway  Employees  of  America. 
^(SEAIi) 

222.  Q.  Was  there  a  vote  taken  by  any  body  of  men 
upon  that  paper  before  it  was  sent  to  Mr.  Todd? 

A.  There  wasn't  a  vote  taken  by  a  body  of  men,  be- 
cause the  men  didn't  dare  meet  at  the  time,  for  fear  they 
would  lose  their  position. 

223.  Q.  Then  their  demands  were  formulated  solely 
and  exclusively  by  you,  were  they? 

A.     No,  sir. 

224.  Q.  Who  were  they  formulated  by? 

A.  By  the  committee  whose  names  are  signed  on  this, 
and  myself. 


252 

225.  Q.  By  those  two  men,  and  yourself? 

A.  And  some  other  men  who  were  members  of  this 
organization,  at  the  time,  here. 

226.  Q.  But  those  demands  were  not  either  sanc- 
tioned, authorized  or  specified  by  a  vote  of  any  body  of 
men  at  that  time? 

A.  It  was  authorized  by  the  committee  representing 
the  men,  and  also — 

227.  Q.  Now,  I  am  talking  about  the  vote  of  any  body 
of  men? 

A.  I  wish  to  make  it  clear  to  the  commission  that  I 
received  several  letters  from  men,  employees,  motormen 
and  conductors  on  the  road,  demanding  that  immediate 
action  be  taken,  and  they  said  I  could  class  themselves  as 
voting  as  such. 

228.  Q.  Voting  on  what? 
A.     Upon  a  strike. 

229.  Q.  On  a  strike? 
A.     Yes,  sir. 

230.  Q.  I  thought  you  said  there  hadn't  been  any  strike 
vote? 

A.  It  was  done  through  letter,  communications  signed 
by  the  members  individually,  by  the  men  to  me. 

231.  Q.  I  am  asking  you  in  regard  to  this  paper.  I 
will  come  to  the  strike  question  after  a  while,  but  as  far 
as  this  paper  is  concerned,  it  wasn't  authorized  or  sub- 
mitted to  a  vote  of  any  body  of  men? 

A.  I  just  got  through  answering  that  I  said  it  was 
not  submitted  to  a  vote.  The  committee  was  present  at 
the  time. 

232.  Q.  Was  the  call  for  the  strike  printed,  or  in 
existence  at  the  time  that  paper  was  sent  to  Mr.  Todd? 

A.     No,  sir,  not  just  at  that  time. 


253 

233    Q.  When  was  it  printed? 

A.     On  that  very  evening — that  is  the  next  evening, 
rather,  the  next  afternoon. 

Chairman  Duncan:    Was  this  sent  on  Thurs- 
day? 

The  W^itness:    Yes,  sir. 

234.  Q.  When  was  the  strike  call  printed? 

A.  I  believe  it  was  Friday  night  the  strike  notice  was 
put  out. 

235.  Q.  When  was  it  printed? 
A.     On  Friday  afternoon. 

236.  Q.  Did  you  write  it? 
A.     I  did  sir. 

237.  Q.  When  was  it  written? 
A.     The  same  day  it  was  printed. 

238.  Q.  In  the  afternoon? 

A.  It  was  put  in  the  printer's  hands,  I  believe  along 
about  twelve  o'clock  or  somewhere  close  to  it. 

239.  Q.  Then  the  strike  call  was  written  and  in  the 
printer's  hands  at  the  time  that  Mr.  Todd  still  had  a  right 
to  give  an  answer  to  that  demand? 

A.  If  I  remember  right,  it  was  on  the  following  day — 
we  asked  him  for  an  answer  by  twelve  o'clock,  and  when 
the  answer  didn't  come,  then  this  notice  was  put  in  the 
hands  of  the  printer  for  the  circulars  to  be  printed. 

240.  Q.  It  was  put  in  the  hands  of  the  printer  at 
twelve  o'clock  that  day? 

A.  It  was  shortly  after  twelve.  I  know  we  had  our 
dinner — the  committee  had — before  going  down  to  the 
printer . 

241.  Q.  You  didn't  take  a  vote  on  the  strike  question 
before  you  received  the  answer  from  Mr.  Todd,  or  during 
the  time  you  had  given  him  to  answer? 


254 

A.  I  have  already  answered  that.  I  said  no,  sir,  we 
did  not  and  I  wish  to  state,  if  the  commission  TS'ill  per- 
mit me,  that  under  the  peculiar  circumstances  in  this 
town,  it  was  almost  impossible,  at  that  time,  because  the 
men,  at  that  time,  was,  as  I  said,  afraid  to  come  to  the 
hall  to  express  their  sentiments  or  their  feelings. 

242.  Q.  You  have  introduced  in  evidence  here  the  stuff 
which  has  to  be  taken,  according  to  your  ritual,  to  call  a 
strike? 

A.  No,  sir.  This  is  entirely  different  circumstances, 
where  a  town  is  organized  and  in  a  town  where  the  com- 
pany meets  and  treats  with  their  employees,  is  entirely 
different  from  what  this  was. 

243.  Q.  Then  do  yo  umean  to  say  that  in  a  town 
where  there  is  no  organization,  that  the  international  of- 
ficers can  go  in  and  call  a  strike? 

A.  They  can  do  almost  anything,  as  far  as  that  is  con- 
cerned, but  if  the  company  is  willing  to  meet  and  treat 
with  their  employees  to  work  out  a  settlement,  you  don't 
see  no  strike. 

244.  Q.  In  this  case  did  the  international  officers  call 
a  strike  without  submitting  it  to  the  men? 

A.  I  say,  through  the  committee,  and  several  of  the 
men  wrote  in  to  me,  personally,  and  demanding  im- 
mediate action. 

245.  Q.  But  I  am  asking,  to  get  at  the  machinery  by 
which  you  called  the  strike — did  you  call  the  strike  with- 
out submitting  it  to  the  men? 

A.  I  want  to  ask  whether  it  is  necessary  to  answer 
these  questions.  Does  that  pertain  to  the  arbitration,  or 
not?    I  wish  the  commission  would  rule  on  this,  and  see. 

Chairman  Duncan  :    In  my  judgment  it  does. 
Mr.  MoClure:    I  think  so. 


255 

246.  Q.  Did  you  call  the  strike  without  submitting  it 
to  the  men? 

A.  I  answered  that  question,  that  the  strike  was  called 
by  the  sanction  of  the  committee  of  this  organization. 

247.  Q.  You  can  answer  the  question  I  asked  you,  yes 
or  no? 

A.  I  answered  the  question — the  committee  was  there, 
and  the  sanction  of  the  committee  and  the  sanction  of  the 
organization  was  that  the  strike  should  be  called. 

248.  Q.  (The  reporter  read  to  the  witness  the  ques- 
tion, as  follows:  "Did  you  call  the  strike  without  sub- 
mitting it  to  the  men?")  Now,  answer  that  question. 

A.  You  might  say  yes,  because,  as  I  said,  the  men  didn't 
dare  to  meet  at  the  hall  because  they  knew  if  they  met 
in  the  hall,  it  simply  meant  immediate  discharge,  and 
that  is  the  reason  we  had. 


256 

WHAT  IT  MEANS  TO  HAVE  A  UNION. 
From  the  Examination  of  J.  J.  Thorpe:  {Recalled) 
Cross-Examination — Questions  ty  Mr.  Latta. 

137.  Q.  Do  you  contend  for  the  right  of  union  men  to 
say  non-union  men  shall  not  be  employed  in  the  same 
shop  where  they  are  employed? 

A.     Do  you  refer  to  the  shop  or  road? 

138  Q.  To  the  shop  or  road,  in  the  business  of  the  em- 
ployer? 

A.     That  means  a  closed  shop? 

139.  Q.  Yes. 

A.  I  want  to  say  that  these  men  here  have  not  asked 
for  strictly  a  closed  shop  agreement. 

Judge  Roby:    Answer  his  question. 

140.  Q.   (Question  137  read,  and  Question  138  read.) 
A.     It  depends  on  the  condition  of  the  shop  and  the 

agreement  entered  into  between  the  company  and  em- 
ployee at  the  shop  he  works. 

141.  Q.  As  a  matter  of  a  finding  of  an  impartial  ar- 
bitration board,  do  you  contend  it  is  right  in  principle 
that  non-union  men  should  not  be  permitted  to  work  in 
competition  with  union  men? 

Mr.  Olawson  :  We  object  because  it  is  outside 
of  the  scope  of  the  arbitration  committee.  We  are 
not  asking  for  a  condition  of  that  kind  We  are  ask- 
ing for  a  period  of  thirty  days'  trial,  and  if  satis- 
factory to  both  parties,  he  shall  become  a  member 
of  the  union.    We  are  not  asking  for  a  closed  shop. 


257 

142.  Q.  (Question  141  was  read  as  follows:)  "As  a 
matter  of  a  finding  of  an  impartial  arbitration  board,  do 
you  contend  it  is  right  in  principle  that  non-union  men 
should  not  be  permitted  to  work  in  competition  w;ith 
union  men?" 

Chairman  Duncan:  That  same  question  was 
frequently  asked  and  answered  in  the  Anthracite 
Coal  Mine  Strike,  and  Judge  Oray  frequently  ex- 
pressed his  opinion  of  it  during  the  ar'bitration.  It 
was  asked  and  answered  over  and  over  again.  You 
may  answer  that. 

The  Witness  :    I  will  say  yes. 

143.  Q.  Give  your  reasons. 

A.  A  man  who  comes  in  to  undermine  his  fellow  men 
and  refuses  to  go  along  with  him  or  join  his  organization, 
I  don't  feel  he  should  be  allowed  to  work  alongside  the 
other  man. 

144.  Q.  Suppose  the  non-union  man  was  there  first; 
how  about  it? 

A.  If  he  were  there  first  and  the  other  man  goes  out 
because  of  the  conditions,  it  shows  the  principle  of  the  man 
for  staying  out. 

145.  Q.  He  ought  not  to  be  allowed  to  work? 
A.     He  should  be  a  man  with  the  rest. 

146.  Q.  He  should  not  be  allowed  to  work  as  a  non- 
union man,  that  is  your  contention? 

A.  If  that  condition  prevailed  at  the  shop  or  wherever 
that  employment  may  be. 


258 
From  The  Examination  of  J.   J.   Thorpe:      (Recalled) 

Cross-E anamination — Questions  hy  Me.  Murphy: 

187.  Q.  Suppose  that  conditions  were  to  get  in  the  City 
of  Indianapolis  so  that  it  would  be  necessary  to  lay  off  say 
25  per  cent,  of  the  men  now  employed  by  the  street  railway 
system,  in  what  way  would  those  men  be  laid  off, — that  is, 
who  would  determine  who  was  to  be  laid  off? 

A.  In  a  case  of  that  kind  the  street  car  company  would 
determine  that,  and  that  should  be  determined  on  the  basis 
of  letting  the  newest  men  in  the  service  go  instead  of  the 
oldest  men. 

188.  Q.  What  would  be  your  position  if  the  street  car 
company  at  that  time  would  pick  out  the  men  in  their  sys- 
tem that  they  knew  were  the  poorest  men,  regardless  of 
the  fact  the  men  had  been  there  one  month  or  twenty 
years? - 

A.  I  believe  first  that  there  should  be  an  investigation 
made  and  see  whether  there  was  any  discrimination  made 
and  there  is  very  seldom — I  don't  know  as  I  can  recall  of 
a  street  car  company  laying  off  a  body  of  men  to  reduce 
their  system. 

189.  Q.  Would  the  position  of  your  union  be  that  you 
could  dictate  to  the  street  car  company  what  men  they 
would  lay  off.    Answer  yes  or  no. 

A.     Yes,  to  a  certain  extent. 


259 


What  They  Do  With  That  Part  of  the  Money  (50%) 
Received  By  This  Union  At  Its  Interna- 
tional Offices. 

REOEIPTS. 

General  Fund: 

Per  capita    $134,005.38 

Subscription  to  the  motorman  and 
conductor 38,649.23 

Subscription  to  the  Union  Leader    12,231.94 

Registration  fees 12,107.74 

Supplies  furnished  local  divisions, 
books,  badges,  etc 6,606.10 

Charters  issued  to  local  divisions         710.00 

Members  at  large  for  general  fund  30.96 

Interest  on  money  deposited  and 
discount 8,412.99 

Donations  for  McNamara  defense 
fund  received  from  local  divi- 
sions        3,567.75 

Security  bonds  returned  from 
Union  National  Bank,  Colum- 
bus, O 4,000.00 

Returned  arbitration  expense  by 
Divisions  Nos.  241  and  260, 
Chicago 490.76 

Received  from  sale  of  arbitration 
address 102.60 


$220,915.45 


Benefit  Fund: 

Per  capita $264,393.43 

Court  fee  returned 6.50 

Received  from  funds  of  disbanded 
divisions 124.17 


$264,524.10 


260 

Defense  Fund: 

Per  capita |109,667.43 

Returned  on  pay  rolls  from  va- 
rious divisions  on  strike  where 
members  were  working  or  other- 
wise not  entitled  to  strike  ben- 
fits  11,180.00 


Bonding  Indemnity  Department : 

Received  from  bonding  local  of- 
ficers   I    2,364.14 

Interest  on  bond  money 49.89 


$120,347.43 


I    2,414.03 
$608,701.01 


Suspense:  [  ]  ,'. 

Standing  to  credit  of  divisions: 
Add :  Items  undistributed  July 
31,  1913 97.01 

1608,798.02 

Less :  Items  standing  to  credit  of 
divisions  shown  as  undistrib- 
uted  July  31,  1911,  now  in- 
cluded in  above  distribution . . .  151.22 

1608,646.80 


261 
DISBURSEMENTS. 


General  Fund: 

Publishing  and  dis- 
tributing the  mo- 
torman  and  con- 
ductor     128,709.65 

Less  cash  in  hands 
of  postmaster  July 
13,  1913 30.90 


I  28,678.75 

Publishing  the  Union  Leader |  13,375.00 

Expense  of  stenographers  in  ap- 
peal case  of  Division  No.  241 . .  90.95 

Officers'  salaries,  including  all  In- 
ternational officers  57,416.04 

Officers'  expenses,  including  rail- 
road fare,  telegrams,  committee 
work  and  all  incidental  ex- 
penses in  connection  with  their 
work  17,131.83 

Office  salaries,  bookkeeper,  clerks 
and  stenographers 8,735.38 

Special  organization  expense.  This 
item  includes  all  expenses  of 
special  organizers,  federation 
organizers,  hall  rent,  printing, 
fines  for  men  in  connection  with 
organizing  work  and  the  gen- 
eral expenses  in  connection  with 
the  same  25,606.77 

Per  capita,  American  Federation 

of  Labor 6,073.36 

Per    capita.    Trades    and    Labor 

Congress  of  Canada 1,399.14 

Donations  to  other  organizations.  830.00 

Convention      expenses      at      St. 

Joseph,  Mo 1,607.88 

Arbitration  expense  at  Augusta, 
Yonkers,    Buffalo,    Vancouver, 


262 

Springfield  and  other  points. .  666.21 

Printing  Chicago  arbitration  pro- 
ceedings   150.00 

McNamara  Denfense  Fund,  paid 
to  the  American  Federation  of 
liabor 3,447.00 

McNamara  Defense  F^nd,  re- 
turned to  local  divisions 120.75 

Delegates  to  American  Federa- 
tion of  Labor 850.21 

Legislati\"e  expense  in  different 
states,  Ohio,  llinois  and  Mas- 
sachusetts    720.30 

Legal  Expense:  Attorneys  at  St. 
Joseph,  Mo.,  looking  after  funds 
of  local  division;  assault  case 
of  Rezin  Orr  at  Toledo,  O. ;  legal 
defense  of  C.  Oj.  Pratt  at  Phil- 
delphia ;  stenographic  reports  in 
connection  with  board  meeting 
at  Philadelphia  and  defense  of 
international  officers  in  court 
proceedings ;  defense  of  organiz- 
ers at  Buffalo  while  organizing; 
defense  of  Wm.  F.  Welch  at 
Birmingham  and  of  Ezra  Day 
at  Kansas  City 3,027.25 

Barn  for  storing  automobiles. . . .  140.00 

Bonding  International  officers. . .  300.00 

Postage   1,118.70 

Telephone,  Long  distance  and 
local  372.21 

Telegrams  1,272.49 

Express,  supplies  to  local  divi- 
sions    546.72 

General  printing,  letters,  circu- 
lars and  pamphlets 970.00 

Office  supplies 443.48 

Office     expense,    including     ice, 

papers,  books  and  ledgers 678.66 

Rent 1,692.68 

Furniture  and  fixtures 580.32 


263 


Auditing  books  each  six  months.  325.00 

Miscellaneous 27.50 

Duty   on   supplies    to   Canadian 

locals 50.23 

Division  Supplies : 

Badges 2,317.47 

Books    I. ,.  545.15 

Forms 2,306.15 

Seals    134.25 

Loans  to  divisions 1,901.75 

Insurance  of  office  supplies. ..  52.80 


Benefit  Fund: 

Death  claims   |201,150.00 

Disability  claims 7,000.00 

Court  proceedings  in  connection 

with  death  claims 223.55 


Defense  Fund: 

Strike  benefits |101,265.00 

Strike  expenses 2,866.08 

Legal  expenses  in  connection  with 
strikes ;  defense  of  officers  pros- 
ecuted at  Columbus,  O.,  officers 
and  members  prosecuted  at  Au- 
gusta, Ga.,  seventeen  officers 
and  members  prosecuted  at 
Harmony,  Pa.,  and  looking  after 
legal  expenses  in  connections 
with  the  various  strikes  that 
the  association  has  been  en- 
gaged in  during  the  past  term . .     16,070.42 


$185,702.38 


1208,373.55 


1120,201.50 


264 


Bonding  Indemnity  Department: 

Printing  and  stationary $  121.25 

Postage 35.50 

Miscellaneous 37.50 


I      194.25 
1514,471.68 


RECAPITULATION. 


There  was  on  hand  in  the  funds  of  this  asso- 
ciation July  31,  1911 1119,401.62 

Receipts,  August  1, 1911,  to  July  31, 1913 608,646.80 


1728,048.42 
Disbursements   August   1,   1911,   to   July   31, 

1913 *; . . .  .1514,471.68 


Balance  on  hand  July  31,  1913 |213,576.74 

Deposited  in : 

Peoples  State  Bank  of  Detroit.  .$152,662.34 

First  National  Bank  of  Detroit. .  51,648.72 
Contingent  Fund,  Peoples  State 

Bank 2,000.00 

Peoples  State  Bank,  Bonding  In- 
demnity Dept. 2,219.78 

In  Safety  Deposit  Vault 5,000.00 

Petty  cash 15.00 

Cash  on  deposit  at  Postoffice 30.90 


1213,576.74 

The  total  assets  of  the  Association  are  as  follows : 

Finances  on  hand |213,576.74 

Automobiles ,. 6,270.00 

Office  furniture  and  supplies,  including  The 

Motormen  and  Conductor  outfits 3,554.25 

Union  Leader  outfit  and  assets 3,000.00 


Total  Assets 1226,400.99 


265 


What  Is  To  Become  of  the  Funds  Retained  By  the 
Local  Division? 

(Exhibits?.) 

Total  membership  up  to  and  including  January 

1st,  1914  1,270 

Dues  for  one  month,  |1,270.     Dues  for  one 

year   $15,240.00 

Per  capita  tax  to  International  office  for  one 

year  7,620.00 

Money  that  remains  with  local  division  645 7,620.00 


Salary  of  president  and  business  agent $1,320.00 

Salary  of  Financial  Secretary-Treasurer. .  $1,320.00 

Salary  Recording  Secretary 192.00 

Twenty  delegates  to  Central  Labor  Union 

(6.00) 120.00 

Dues  Collectors 210.00 

Hall  rent  $18.00  per  month.     Office  rent 

$20.00 456.00 

Telephones  per  year 108.00 

Lights  for  office  per  year 24.00 

Stationary  and  stamps  per  year 60.00 

Monthly  buttons  per  year  and  expenses  ....        185.40 
As  to  death  and  disability  benefits,  we  have  not  as  yet  de- 
cided as  to  the  amount  we  will  pay  each  member.    Also 
there  are  other  expenses  that  it  is  impossible  to  state  the 
correct  amount. 


266 


WHAT    THE    UNION    DU)    FOR    THIS     COMPANY    AS     SHOWN    BY    A    COM- 
PARISON OF  RECE3IPTS. 

INDIANAPOLIS    TRACTION    AND    TERMINAL    COMPANY. 

Earnings,    40   days   prior   to   November   1st,    1912 — 1913. 


1912 


1913 


Sept.  22  Sept. 
23 
24 
86 
26 
27 
28 
29 
30 
Oct.    1 

2  Oct. 

3 

4 

6 

6 

7 

8 

9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
IS 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 

23 
24 
26 
26 
27 
28 
29 
80 
SI 


Day  of 
Week 

21  Sunday     . . . 

22  Monday     . . 

23  Tuesday    . . . 

24  Wednesday 

25  Thursday     , 

26  Friday 

27  Saturday 

28  Sunday 

29  Monday 

30  Tuesday 

1  Wednesday 

2  Thursday 

3  Friday 

4  Saturday 

5  Sunday 

6  Monday 

7  Tuesday 

8  Wednesday 

9  Thursday 

10  Friday 

11  Saturday 

12  Sunday 

13  Monday 

14  Tuesday 

15  Wednesday 

16  Thursday 

17  Friday 

18  Saturday 

19  Sunday 

20  Monday 

21  Tuesday 

22  Wednesday 

23  Thursday 

24  Friday 

25  Saturday 

26  Sunday      . . , 

27  Monday 

28  Tuesday 

29  Wednesday 

30  Thursday 


Earnings 
1912 

6,837.26 

7.990.94 

7.916.09 

7,576.79 

8,208.13 

7,715.21 
10,642.75 

6,980.24 

7,748.00 

8,005.17 

7,934.55 

8,846.25 

7,734.61 
10,753.43 

7,532.12 

7,972.35 

7,747.42 

7,567.99 

7,841.38 

7,835.58 
10,612.93 

6,995.65 

7,946.89 

8,070.60 

8,381.20 

7,978.09 

7,654.00 
10,708.37 

7,126.84 

7,919.35 

7,722.62 

7,815.64 

7,804.33 

7,702.27 
10,485.05 

7,378.02 

7,714.54 

7,718.58 

7,686.31 

9,130.78 


1913 
6.512.66 
8,017.71 
8,247.09 
8,260.36 
B.321.k2 
7.936.19 

10,676.04 
7,371.14 
8,135.20 
8,096.91 
8,127.59 
8,131.24 
7,960,89 

10.808.48 
7,203.06 
8,295.64 
8,298.06 
8,065.84 
8,416.32 
8,103.17 

10,704.35 
7,335.65 
8,107.49 
8,142.22 
8,031.16 
8.081.20 
7,884.58 

10,307.06 
6.672.98 
7,989.09 
8.170.03 
7,705.15 
8,105.80 
8.259.98 

10,751.25 
7,380.54 
7,866.80 
8.219.58 
7.953.05 
8,119.86 


Increase    Decrease 
505.06  324.60 

26.77  

331.00  

683.58  

113.09  

220.98  

33.29  

390.90  

387.20  

91.74  

193.04  

716.01 

226.28  

55.05  

329.06 

323.29  

550.64  

497.85  

574.94  

267.59  

91.42  

340.00  

•160.60  

71.62  

350.04 

103.11  

230.58  

401.31 
453.86 

69.74  

447.41  

110.49 

301.47  

557.71  

266.20  

2.52  

151.26  

501.00  

266.74  

1,010.92 


Average  Earnings  per  day,    . . . 


$325,938.31      $330,771.63      $4,833.32 
...$8,148.46  $8,269.29 


267 


INDIANAPOLIS    TRACTION    AND    TERMINAL,   COMPANY. 
Earnings,  40  days  subsequent  to  November  8th,  1912 — 1918. 


1912 
Nov.  9 
10 
11 
12 
18 
14 
IS 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
28 
24 
26 


27 

28 

29 

80 

1 

2 

3 

4 

6 

< 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

18 

14 

16 

16 

17 

18 


1913 
Nov.       8 


Dec 


Dec. 


Day  of  week 

1912 

1913 

Increase 

Decrease 

8 

Saturday 

.     10,689.00 

7,716.06 

2,972.94 

9 

Sunday       

6,955.42 

5,060.55 

1,894.87 

10 

Monday 

7,817.08 

7,599.30 

217.78 

11 

Tuesday 

7.816.43 

7,788.61 

27.82 

12 

Wednesday 

8,140.82 

7,402.11 

738.71 

18 

Thursday 

7,907.32 

7.580.22 

327.10 

14 

Friday        

7,826.22 

7.301.94 

524.28 

15 

Saturday 

.      10,543.90 

9.471.30 

1,072.60 

16 

Sunday       

6,773.47 

6.377.33 

396.14 

17 

Monday      

7,885.62 

7.659.41 

226.21 

18 

Tuesday 

7,925.83 

7,871.76 

54.07 

19 

Wednesday 

7,896.22 

7,684.94 

211.28 

20 

Thursday 

.    8,136.51 

7,986.41 

150.10 

21 

Friday        

7,684.40 

7,601.55 

82.85 

22 

Saturday 

.      10,155.42 

9,549.01 

606.41 

23 

Sunday       

5.593.77 

6,755.13 

1,161.86 

24 

Monday 

7,733.05 

7,919.60 

186.66 

26 

Tuesday 

7,882.48 

7,998.55 

116.07 

26 

Wednesday 

8,570.48 

8,617.45 

46.97 

27 

Thursday 

7,048.28 

7,002.76 

45.52 

28 

Friday        

7,857.27 

7.659.54 

197.73 

29 

Saturday 

.      10,037.96 

9.580.95 

457.01 

30 

Sunday        . . , . 

6,563.43 

5,727.37 

836.06 

1 

Monday 

7.829.27 

8,002.96 

178.69 

2 

Tuesday     

8.028.10 

7,789.28 

238.82 

8 

Wednesday 

7,935.66 

7,391.31 

544.35 

4 

Thursday 

7.813.38 

7.540.49 

272.89 

5 

Friday        

7,709.57 

7.428.09 

281.48 

6 

Saturday 

.      10,482.31 

9.300.16 

1,182.15 

7 

Sunday       

6,103.97 

5.623.43 

480.54 

8 

Monday 

7,899.78 

7.849.75 

50.03 

9 

Tuesday     

8.045.00 

7,923.90 

12110 

10 

Wednesday 

8.051.73 

7,755.94 

295.79 

11 

Thursday 

8,068.29 

7,867.31 

200.98 

12 

Friday        

7,931.31 

7,626.79 

304.52 

13 

Saturday 

.      11,019,39 

9,812.16 

1,207.23 

14 

Sunday      

6,246.63 

6.473.68 

227.05 

15 

Monday      

8.224.02 

7.875.69 

348.33 

16 

Tuesday     

8,322.65 

7,918.22 

404.43 

17 

Wednesday 

8,062.07 

7,746.03 

316.04 

$328,213.51 

$307,837.04 

115.376.47 

Average  Earnings  per  day 


W  07788 


